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Unread 10-27-2009, 12:41 PM   #1
ga86cj
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Which type of Transmission fluid for an '86 CJ7, 5-speed?

What is the recommended transmission fluid for an '86 CJ7, 5-speed?

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Unread 10-27-2009, 12:48 PM   #2
Mike Romain
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An API GL4 SAE 80W-90 rated gear oil like this one at NAPA, SAE 85w90 Gear Oil GL4 (also meets GL3)
Part #SL24239.

Your T-case and diffs use an 80W-90, API-GL5 oil. From Novak: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/model_300.htm
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
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Unread 10-27-2009, 12:54 PM   #3
ga86cj
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Thank you.
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Unread 10-27-2009, 03:31 PM   #4
captkhaos
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T5 Trans Fluid

Not so fast. This has been discussed ad nauseum (unless you've got a T5) and I haven't seen a clear answer. I've been running ATF in mine for 20 years and have recently read (I think here) that it may still be the way to go. I really want to have a definitive answer and I'm sure others do too. I have an '86 BW T5 behind a 258 (4.2) six.
Thanks,
Dan
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Unread 10-27-2009, 03:58 PM   #5
fredrok
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Oh boy. Use the search function to get further confused. FWIW, I've rebuilt no less than 300-350 T5s both WC and non-WC (like the Jeep T5). Almost all of them within the Mustang group and thus prone to even more abuse. I've always instructed the owners to run synchromesh which you can purchase through Penzoil or a GM dealer (12345349 part# I believe). In warmer climates, you may get away with gear lube for the non-WC T5s. They have the brass blocker rings whereas the WC have the fiber composite ones requiring ATF type fluid consistency.

Let the disputes begin.....

All in all, I've had excellent reliability and wear results using synchromesh in them all.
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Unread 10-27-2009, 05:03 PM   #6
mjfitz99
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I use Royal Purple Syncromax, it's been in the T5 for about 8 months and I have been happy
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Unread 10-27-2009, 08:20 PM   #7
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Just put Royal Purple Syncromax in mine too. I'm anxious to hear other reports on how it does long term. Fredrok from your other posts I'd consider you the resident expert. What is your opinion on the Royal Purple stuff?
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Unread 10-27-2009, 09:13 PM   #8
80cj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captkhaos View Post
Not so fast. This has been discussed ad nauseum (unless you've got a T5) and I haven't seen a clear answer. I've been running ATF in mine for 20 years and have recently read (I think here) that it may still be the way to go. I really want to have a definitive answer and I'm sure others do too. I have an '86 BW T5 behind a 258 (4.2) six.
Thanks,
Dan
After running ATF for 20 years, why would you suddenly have any doubts or wish to change? I would think that after using the same lube for 20 years, one would say "what works, works". One more little question, do you really want to re-kindle the GL-5 vs. GL-4 vs. ATF vs. synthetic issue? I think this forum has had all it can handle for a while
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Unread 10-27-2009, 11:40 PM   #9
Fjguercio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredrok View Post
Oh boy. Use the search function to get further confused. FWIW, I've rebuilt no less than 300-350 T5s both WC and non-WC (like the Jeep T5). Almost all of them within the Mustang group and thus prone to even more abuse. I've always instructed the owners to run synchromesh which you can purchase through Penzoil or a GM dealer (12345349 part# I believe). In warmer climates, you may get away with gear lube for the non-WC T5s. They have the brass blocker rings whereas the WC have the fiber composite ones requiring ATF type fluid consistency.

Let the disputes begin.....

All in all, I've had excellent reliability and wear results using synchromesh in them all.

I tend to agree with you for the T4 and T5 the Syncromesh seems to be the best overall option for these two. Much confusion, miss information, wrong information, opinions. A Manual Transmission Fluid is often call Syncromesh from what I have been reading. AMSOIL's MTF, Manual Transmission Fluid is a Syncromesh GL4 but it has a oil weight scale. Confusing because it also is made to meet GL4 a GEAR Lube that use Gear Lube Weight scale. Well guess what they Oil / Gear Lube weight scales cross at these two weights.

I have not seen the 86 Jeep FSM yet.... but the 1982 says to USE GL5 they also have a bold caution....
Section 2B page 4
1982 FSM Manual Transmission NOTE:
"Do not use Gear Lubricants with lead, chlorine, or sulfur compounds in the T176 and T18a manual transmissions.”

This caution is most likely in the 1986 the guy above refered too.... So are we all to become GL5 corrosive or not corrisive experts too????


Jeep Had larger failures and had a Recal 12/23/82 for all jeep models because of MANUAL TRANSMISSION LUBRICATION PROBLEMS.... I have also read they changed the spline count one of the trans gears to make it stronger. I have found the Recall but not the FSM Admendments yet.

AS for the claims have to use GL5 in the DANA 300.... Well the FSMs say over and over to USE GL4 in the Manual Transmissions and DANA 20 Transfer Case. GL4 gear lube can be used in per spec in mild hypoid gears and manual transmissions. For SIMPLICITY I see now reason not to use the GL4 for that application too. Could save lots of the problems of putting this here that there.

The only issue not solved yet is the T4 and T5. So far I see nothing better than the Snycromesh Product..... But be carefull here some of the GL5 and Syncromesh products failed testing in the AMSOIL White Paper on Gear lube. It is one of the best reference sources I have found.

The lest expensive GL4 is the Napa, the least expensive / best test results are the Amsoil MTF Syncromesh GL4 and the Mobile 1 GL5. Royal Purple Failed the test as did many others. We have discussed the Royal Purple Failure on other threads and guess they may have changed their formulation but nothing was researched or discovered.

Seems Jeep really screwed the pooch in 1982 and the information is poor in the FSM compaired to two 1970s versions of FSM. Then they had the Recall and Transmission failures, 12/23/82 recall. So how explicit do you think JEEP or the Transmission Manufacture is going to be after a wide spread failure. What do you think they will admit to in the next few years of FSMs if they are still using that Transmision. For a problem this wide spread the infromation certainly is not easily found and no I am not going to start searching the Mustang Web Pages.

So until we find more information, good information we a peeing in the wind as they say. I looked at the Novak site its useless info and offered nothing new. WE need more and better sources of info.

HERE IS THE JEEP INFO POSTED the last few days.
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Unread 10-27-2009, 11:45 PM   #10
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj-7-lubricants-885891/index3.html


The reason I researched MANUAL TRANSMISSION LUBRICATION..... I put GL5 in my transmission, T18, and it started to FAIL. I have found a easy solution and a solution Jeep has recommended many many many more times than any manual trans lubricant. GL4.... It GL4 Gear Lube 85w/90 is easy to get if you Call Napa GL4 $15/gallon phone order there the next day, Internet or store order Amsoil MTF Syncormesh a GL4 Product $8 to 11/quart, or the Mobile 1 Gear Lube a GL5, $8-10 quart not corrosive but GL5 and did well in Amsoil White Paper. These are some of the least expensive gear lubes and will work well in Transmisison and Transfere case. So why not use them, why choose something that is $20 qt gear lube like I saw on the Auto Parts Shelves.

I am sorry if you feel reading is TOO HARD A EFFORT for you....... then you can spend the next half a day taking your transmission out for a 1 day rebuild and $200 in parts or so. Choice is always yours.... For that matter you do not have to read the thread. But..... BUT..... Please do not read the last little bit a thread and say no facts or a bunch of garbage or insults. This is a factual internet location. If you can not take the 20 min to read the thread, then please respect the 30-40 hours of research I have done.

The READ was hard because... a simple post where to get the GL4 was not enough, quoting a few posters with sucessfull gear lube changes was not enough, then its my 1982 manual says GL5, or I have used Valvoline GL5 and it works. So I went to my manuals and most of the time when specified at all its USUALLY GL4. 1982 FSM JEEP said GL5 several times and at the end of year there were all model recalls to replace the Trans Gear Lube..... transmissions were failing issued 12/23/1982. Gee.... not even made the 12mo/12000 warranty. That is pretty scary to me.... Think you want to read.

And for you guys that want to STILL WANT TO QUOTE THE 1982 FSM.... do not forget they had a big bold caution about using GL5 in the FSM........... So please let us know the SAFE GL5 lubes before telling us its OK.
Section 2B page 4
1982 FSM Manual Transmission NOTE:Do not use Gear Lubricants with lead, chlorine, or sulfur compounds in the T176 and T18a manual transmissions.”

So I have moved the stuff that was found so it reads better for those that do not mind spending time to read something. The rest of you can wait for the movie. So here is the story....









Dear JeepForum Members,

Ref: Proper Gear Lube in Manual Transmissions and Transfere Case......... USE GL4..... USE GL4 Gear Lube

Winter 2007 I changed the Gear Lube in my Axles, T18 Manual Transmission, and Dana 20 Transfer Case. My transmission gradually started shifting harder, feeling more teeth / grind as it went into gear, 1st and Rev were harder to get. My syncros were noisy / rattling going down the road. I thought my transmission was failing and would need a rebuild. GL5 Gear Lube is all you will find on the store shelves. I checked a dozen stores. I started doing research and read every post or gear oil manufacture web site and literature I could find.

So lets get to the facts.... Amsoil web site, their tech department, and the Gear Lube Development Engineer were a great deal of help. The website www.Amsoil.com and the Amsoil MTF Syncromesh, a GL4 Gear Lube made for manual transmissions, http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mtf.aspx. When you look at the Amsoil MTF Syncromesh it lists all the Jeep Manual Transmissions we have. Good source of information on lubrication and in my opinion one of the best lubrication solutions…. Amsoil MTF. Another good solution would be the Marine Gear Lube another GL4 product with more ability to hold more moisture/water before failures. That would be their 2nd best product for Jeep Manual Transmissions. Amsoil has a great WHITE TEST PAPER on gear lubes, use in Manual Transmissions and use in Axles. They clearly list the Trimec and Borg Warner Manual Transmissions and using the GL4 lubrication. They also spell out the TWO major differences in the GL4 and GL5 with lubrication properties, corrosion to yellow metal, and why the GL5 was developed for these large SUV and Truck tow capabilties for the general public. ITS A GOOD READ for those technical minded. Please note I am an Industrial Engineer, understand many concepts, and I also spent an hour with the TECH Dept of AMSOIL and Their Gear Lube Development Engineer.

AMSOIL deserves our business and I believe this is the best product out there for our manual transmissions. I can even resell it and have not even tried.

There is much confusion on subject of proper lubrication of the Jeep Manual Transmissions... In the 1979 & 1974-1976 Jeep Field Service Manual and the 1971 – 1986 Chilton Service Manuals for Jeeps they usually just list the use of Gear Lube "ONLY" not even saying the weight nor the spec. It is the exception to state Gear Lube, weight, spec, and API… When Service Manuals specify gear lube, 80w/90 Gear Lube GL 4 is listed mostly / several for Manual Transmissions and Transfer Case

Here is what the FOUR FSMs & the Chilton Jeep FSM 1971 to 1986 say:
The 1979 FSM sect 2-B
SAE Gear Lube in Introduction and 3 more times for each Manual Transmission Section

Section 2D Transfere Case states:
[SIZE=4]"Lubrication circulates between the TRANSFERE CASE & Transmission in all three manual Transmissions" [/size]

Section 2D-11 Transfer Case
Clearly states SAE 90 Gear Lube API Grade GL4


1974 – 1976 Jeep FSM
Section B page 6…Manual Transmission and Transfer Case 80w Gear Lubricant of API GL 4 Quality
Section B page 6 Axles use 80w/90 Gear Lube API GL5 Qualtiy
TracLok use 80w/90 Limited Slip Gear Lube API GL5 Quality
Section B page 10 Manual Transmission (3 & 4 speed) and Dana 20 Transfer Case change fluid every 30,000 miles use SAE 80w/90 Gear Lube API GL 4 Quality
AXLES same frequency 30,000 miles use Gear Lube GL5
Section 6 Manual Transmissions T18a, T150, T15a
Page 6 & 7… T150 say coat parts with transmission fluid??
Page 13…. T15 coat all parts with transmission lubricant??
Page 24….. T18 pour gear lubricant over all gears???
Page 26…. T18 use SAE 80w or SAE 90w Gear Lubricant??
Section 8 Dana 20 Transfer Case FILL TRANSMISSION AND TRANSFER CASE WITH 80W/90 GEAR LUBRICANT API GL 4 QUALITY

So can we agree that GL4 should be used in the majority of manual transmissions. Also agree the Transfer Case and Manual Transmission share fluids so the same gear lube should be used in both… GL 4. Both the 74-76 and 1979 clearly state use GL 4 SAE Gear Lube for both applications and that they share lube back & forth.



Chilton JEEP Manual 1971 to 1986
Section 7- Page 14 Says lubricant, for transmission
7-46… Fill the Transfere Case with SAE 80w/90 Gear Lubricant API GL4
7-53… Dana 300 SAE 85w-90
7-55… Dana 300 SAE 85w/90 gear oil
7-58… QuadraTrac 10w-30 motor oil
7-62… AXLES "Differential Oil" and limited slip additives

Chilton FSM Jeep 1971 to 1986
General Info
1-34 All Manual Transmissions SAE 80w/90 Gear Oil.
T4 & T5 use Dextron II Automatic Transmission Fluid
JEEP RECALLED THIS RECOMENDATION because 1st gear was not getting the proper lubrication... They changed to gear lube... see the Jeep Recall

Section 1-35 Dana and Spicer Transfer Cases use SAE 80W/90 Gear Oil
Section 1-38 Axle(s) Differentials use SAE 80w/90 Gear Oil..... TracLok use any limited slip gear oil meeting 75w/90 80w/90 or 85w/90.






1982 JEEP FSM
(1982 Jeep Wide Recall for Faulty Trans Lubrication & Transmission Failures….. I would not take the FSM as a solid info source for Lube Info.) 1982 FSM was amended. I do not have amendment yet, it you do please post up.

Section B page 5…. Maintenance Section… replace Transmission, Transfer, Axles every 30,000 miles
Page 6… Automatic Transmission use AMC/Jeep Auto Trans Fluid, or equiv labeled Dextron, or Dextron II
Pg 16.. Axles use 85w/90 Gear Lube GL5, TracLok use a limited slip GL5
NOTE: The Maint Section omits the Manual Transmission Lubrication for some reason. Prior two FSM this was the area that was specified very clearly as GL 4. There is no mention of the Gear Lube or Lubrication in the Maint Section of the 1982 FSM.

Section B page 16…CHART
I believe the chart is wrong and had been amended…
WRONG INFO: Contradicts the Prior TWO FSM Manuals using GL 4
Pg 16… Manual Trans T176 and T18 SAE 85w/90 Gear Lube API GL5 Quality
Pg 16… Model 300 Transfer Case SAE 85w/90 Gear Lube API GL5 Quality

Here is one of the 1982 recall notices from WEB….. I will see if my local Dealer has the actual notice. This is listed for the other Jeep Models too. 1982 There was a Jeep RECALL for using the wrong Manual Transmission Fluid, the recall changed the Trans Fluid N/C and amended the FSM. I have not found the Amendment to FSM yet but one of the Web RECALL summary is below. RECALL #82V125000

http://www.autobuyguide.com/1982/12-aut/jeep/j20/recalls/index.html

1982 Jeep J20 Recalls


1982 Jeep J20 Recall ID from NHTSA: 82V125000
Auto Recall Date: 12/13/1982
Vehicle Component: POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION:LUBRICANT
Estimated Vehicles Affected: 13532
1982 JEEP J20 Defect Summary:
ORIGINAL PRODUCTION TRANSMISSION LUBRICANT USED IN THE INVOLVED VEHICLES MAY NOT PROVIDE ADEQUATE LUBRICATION TO PROTECT THE TRANSMISSION"S FIRST GEAR.
Defect Consequence:

Remedy:
THE DEALER WILL REPLACE THE ORIGINAL PRODUCTION LUBRICANT AT NO CHARGE TO THE OWNER.
Notes: CHRYSLER CORPORATION,






1982 Jeep FSM
Section 2B Manual Transmission
Pages 1,2,3 were silent on lubrication specs….. other manuals listed the proper lubrication materials in detail, weight and specs. SILENT here.
Manual Transmission models T18a, T176, T5, T4
Section 2B page 4
T4 & T5 use Jeep Automatic Transmission Fluid or equivilant Dextron
T176 & T18a use SAE 85w/90 Gear Lubricant API GL5
(NOTE Prior FSM listed use of GL 4, 1974, 1979, and Chilton Jeeps)
1982 FSM Manual Transmission NOTE:
Do not use Gear Lubricants with lead, chlorine, or sulfur compounds in the T176 and T18a manual transmissions.”

2B page 33 T176 fill transmission with SAE 85w/90 gear lubricant
2B pg 35 T176 fill transmission with SAE 85w/90 gear lubricant GL5
2B pg 43 T18a fill transmission with SAE 85w/90 gear lubricant







WELL OVER …9… GOOD REASONS TO USE GL4 IN TRANSFERE CASE &
MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS
1.. 1979 FSM Clearly states use GL4 and one of the few times API spec even mentioned. Usually just states gear oil
2.. Chilton Manual 1971 to 1986 clearly states use GL4 in Transfer Case by spec... one of the few times it states any API spec... GL4
3.. 1979 FSM clearly states Manual Transmission and Transfer Case "Lubrication Circulates Between transfer case and transmission in all three manual transmisisons.
4.. Amsoil Gear Lube White Paper... clearly states use GL 4 in Trimec and BorgWarner Manual Transmissions.
LISTED: New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 2550, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600, and Tremec T4, T5, T18, T56, T176, TKO500, TKO600, TR 3450 and TR 3550. Replaces MTF-94 fluid for Land Rover, MG, and Mini Cooper. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF fluid for manual transaxles and Texaco MTX fluid.

5.. Jeep issued a 1982 JEEP RECALL NOTICE FOR incorrect lubricaion on the few Manual Transmissions that were to get ATF Dextron II. They changed to gear lube. Even The Chilton Manual Missed this one... they said ATF too if you read the page numbers above from the Chilton Manual
6.. Dozens of folks here on JeepForum have confirmed the GL4 can stop and reverse problems. FOUND TO: shifts better, works better, quite down noisy syncros / transmissions / transfer cases, and keep transmission from early failure.
7.. My own personal conversation with Amsoil Tech Support and conference call with the Amsoil Gear Lube Engineer who confirmed what I was finding.
8.. I have been working on this proper Gear Lube issue for two years... I have posted and helped on almost every gear lube post since that time. I think my background on this subject is pretty deep.
9.. Other research I have done.
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Unread 10-28-2009, 06:42 AM   #11
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captkhaos View Post
Not so fast. This has been discussed ad nauseum (unless you've got a T5) and I haven't seen a clear answer. I've been running ATF in mine for 20 years and have recently read (I think here) that it may still be the way to go. I really want to have a definitive answer and I'm sure others do too. I have an '86 BW T5 behind a 258 (4.2) six.
Thanks,
Dan
Jeep said to use ATF for a couple years in the early 80's, then did a recall notice on it. The 85 and 86 owners manual states to use gear oil.

Recall Number: 82V125000
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 10-28-2009, 09:18 AM   #12
captkhaos
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I'm still confused...Seems like conflicting info in Fjguercio's lengthy post about the T4 and T5. I come away with the impression that ATF is still the way to go. As for 80cj's reply, I don't WANT to change UNLESS I find out definitively that there is something better. As for why I would have any doubts?! You've got to be kidding!
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Unread 10-28-2009, 09:45 AM   #13
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captkhaos View Post
I'm still confused...Seems like conflicting info in Fjguercio's lengthy post about the T4 and T5. I come away with the impression that ATF is still the way to go. As for 80cj's reply, I don't WANT to change UNLESS I find out definitively that there is something better. As for why I would have any doubts?! You've got to be kidding!

In 82, AMC tried to use ATF in the tranny. Apparently the 'world class T5's' in Mustangs used this also, but our plain Borg Warner T5's are different. When they had tranny failures, mostly in 1st gear, they put out that recall notice and said to go back to gear oil which they made special for them. Then Chrysler bought them and made it simple, use GL3 gear oil of which most GL4's are compatible, but GL5 is not. (even a so called compatible with GL3, GL5 fluid caused my syncros to start to fail)

I asked my dealer about this way back in the 90's when they still had Jeep mechanics on board and they told me ATF was just fine for the Canadian winters if I had shifting issues, but to use GL3 in the summer months.

I have the owners manuals for both the 85 and 86 CJ7's and by then the fix was in the book and they recommended the GL3 equivalent gear oil.
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 10-28-2009, 10:18 AM   #14
Fjguercio
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It is not just about the T4 & T5 trans its about all the Jeep Manual Trans and Transfer Cases.. The information and quotes are from the FMSs. There are many gear lubes out there that will mess you up pretty good. If this is such a simple proces how come...... Fjguercio, Mike Romain, Foggybottombob, and many other respected members here put the wrong fluid in their Jeep and had failure or performance issues.

It is quite obvious STARTING in 1982 Jeep had issues with Manual Trans and the lubrication selected. How honest will they be after a large recall like that across their whole offering. Same goes with the Trans Manufacture... did you see the Mustang guy in here too. Funny companies act after major issues like that. So is the newt few years going to have great info in the.

I quoted with section and page number 4 Service Manuals. There seems to be mistakes in the Jeep FSM like in 82 FSM says to use GL5 in the T18 & 176..... they also caution in the same FSM not to use GL5 with Sulfates, Clorides, or .... So some GL5 are corrosive. Even the worthless Novak article said some GL5 are corrosive..... So we need to be GL5 experts. Three other manuals, 1974, 1979, Chiltons, and most likely the 1978 too, say to use GL4 in these transmissions. So did jeep make a mistake on that is 1982 or could they not find a GL4 in the market??

Mike Romain... you say to use GL3 ... where did you find GL3? and if the trans are different what is the difference... What was the upgrade? I mean if you are going to say something why beat around the bush... Do you know or not?

Could it be they changed the spline count on the gear to get better lubricaiton?
Could it be that some of the T5 Trans have carbon fiber componets and some do not like the poster above, I have posted this several times too.
I have never seen the GL3 offered.... Heck it was hard enough for me to find the GL4.


I am writing to get this out in the open so we as a group may be able to solve this.

Fred
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Unread 10-28-2009, 10:45 AM   #15
carnuck
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Redline is what was in the one I had that blew up while waiting for the light to change, but it was nearly empty by that point. (I should have known because it was dry under there!)
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