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Unread 11-06-2009, 10:30 AM   #1
michanecash
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Transmission Problems

I have a 1979 Jeep CJ-7 with a 304 and a 3 speed T-150 Transmission. It was rebuilt head to toe with a fiberglass body. The transmission was rebuilt as well. I have recently had issues getting it into gear will at standstill and driving. It needs extra oomph or you have to disengage the clutch, reengage and try again. Most of the time when trying to go into Reverse, it will not engage and grinds. The only, ONLY, way to get it into reverse is to put it in first gear and then it will smoothly and easily go into reverse. I took the jeep to a shop and had both synchro gears replaced. It did not fix anything. They indicated that the clutch adjustment was off and that the linkage over engages and that I should just depress the clutch less. While this helps a little, I still find it difficult to shift and want it to work better.

Any thoughts?

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Unread 11-06-2009, 02:05 PM   #2
oteps
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Push the clutch in and out and have someone look at the linkage to make sure its not pulling away from the body. Maybe the fiberglass is flexing. I have a steel body and mine did the same thing but it was from rust. Now I am going to put a hydraulic linkage on it.
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Unread 11-06-2009, 03:30 PM   #3
michanecash
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I actually had my wife do that and everything looked good.
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Unread 11-06-2009, 08:49 PM   #4
Fjguercio
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I bet they put GL5 gear lube in there.... Thats all thats on the store shelves. Call Napa and Phone order a Gallon of GL4 gear lube. Different lubrication properties and not corrosive to yellow metals.

My T18 started to fail with Gl5 put in Gl4 and much better, shifts better and syncros not rattling. Sounds strange but I have done this several doz times here on JeepForum.

Originally Posted by Fjguercio

Here is a POST from me a few days ago.... I just copied and pasted here so hope nobody minds. YOU WILL FIND NOTHING BUT GL5 GEAR LUBE ON THE STORE SHELVES, NOTHING BUT.... The GL5 GEAR LUBE is the wrong fluid for old JEEP CJ Manual Transmissions and Transfer Cases, can also cause the SYNCROS to start rattle/noise and not work well or shift well. GL5 HAS THE WRONG.... LUBRICATION PROPERTIES.... AND.... IT IS CORROSIVE TO YELLOW METALS USED IN MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS. Some have posted, many posted, they could hardly shift after some time. Changed to GL4 and got better and quieter. I have done this dozens of times with great results.

So Please copy this to your hard drive and spread the word. This could stop a lot of JEEP MANUAL TRANS FROM FAILURE AND REBUILD BEFORE THEIR TIME. TRY IT YOU WILL SEE.................


The confusion with the AMSOIL product its rated as oil viscosity and not Gear Lube viscosity. The TWO OIL VISCOSITY SCALES cross or equal at these weights…..AMSOIL MTF is what I am going to change to since I do not WATER CROSS so the installed life will be of benefit. I currently have the Napa GL4 installed and very pleased with the correction of operation and is getting even better over time…. Almost no syncro rattle now

THE AMSOIL MARINE GEAR LUBE CAN ALSO BE USED FOR......... GL4 GEAR LUBE, it meets the GL4 spec, it can absorb more water before oil failure. SO... for those of you that play in the water alot that may be a good choice.

I have spoke to Amsoil Tech Support and the Gear Lube Engineer..... This is confusing to MARKET. Using Gear Lube Weight for gear lubes and OIL LUBE WEIGHT for the MTF product. They are changing their lit and web site to use Gear Lube Weight for MTF / GL4 Product. Should be done sometime next year. A Chem Eng In OIL here on JeepForum and I had a WEB Discussion on this in detail.... seems the Oil Weight and Gear Lube Weight cross here at these numbers. I’ts just confusing.



My POST few days ago............

It your syncors rattling. The gear lube on the shelves is GL5 and is a product made for the pumpkins of these big large towing capacity tow rigs. The GL5 has the wrong lubrication properties and is corrosive to the yellow metals in manual transmisisons. All the BorgWarner Transmissions in the older Jeeps should use Gear Lube.

The RIGHT GEAR LUBE is GL4...... GL4...... GL4.... Napa Sells it, call them and ask them to order you 1-2 gallons and its like $15 a gallon. After 50 to 100 miles it will start shifting better and should start to get quite. My T18 did the same thing after I put the Gear Lube from the shelf.... it was GL5 and started shifting harder the the syncros starting rattle. Now almost silent and shift much better and its 32 years old.

Alternaitves Amsoil Syncromesh is a GL4 or Mobil 1 were both rated very high and and some of the least expensive on the list.



I have posted this up many times, many folks amazed with results. Frankly I am SHOCKED another fluid bad for our Little Jeeps ALL OVER THE SHELVES. I HAVE LOOKED YOU WILL ONLY FIND GL5 ON THE SHELVES. Good for your pumkins but not for the trans/transfer. Also add a magnet to both drain plugs to catch the metal particle. I also took a "stick magnet" and rubbed the bottom of trans/trans and got more out that way.

NAPA
SAE 85w90 Gear Oil GL4 (also meets GL3)
Part #SL24239
Mfg By Sta-Lube, sibisdary of CRC Industries
Bar Code 72213-24239
$15/gallon, phone order take 1-2 days to arrive, then pick it up, easy

I would also consider Amsoil MTF Syncromesh GL4 or the Mobil 1 Gear Lubes they were tops in performance and lower in cost that most. $8-10/quart.



Fred,

PS
Use GL5 Gear Lube in your Pumpkins and follow any recommendations for limited slip or locker additives.






APPLICATIONS For GL4 and Amsoil MTF Gear Lube their GL4
Recommended for automotive and light-truck applications that require synchromesh transmission fluid. Applications include manual transmissions and transaxles such as New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 2550, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600, and Tremec T4, T5, T18, T56, T176, TKO500, TKO600, TR 3450 and TR 3550. Replaces MTF-94 fluid for Land Rover, MG, and Mini Cooper. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF fluid for manual transaxles and Texaco MTX fluid. Not for use in engines, hypoid rear axles, limited-slip or wet clutch applications.




T5 .....Dexron III / Mercon, Mercon V use.....ATF.......
BUT....(except T5 from 1985 to 1991 use GL4 Gear Lube)
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Unread 11-06-2009, 09:52 PM   #5
80cj
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Sounds liike a clutch adjustment problem. Is it adjusted so you have about 1 to 1 1/2 inches of freeplay? Could also be pilot bushing or even a clutch pressure plate (3 finger Borg and Beck) that may have gone out of adjustment. I had a 76 CJ-5 with 304 and T-150. When the pilot bushing went out, It would make funny groaning noises especially when cold and it acted as though the clutch wasn't disengaging. You need complete clutch disengagement to shift into reverse since reverse is a sliding gear setup and you're trying to mesh the teeth on 2 gears. The reason you can shift into reverse immediately after shifting into first is that first uses synchronizers and the act of shifting into first stops or slows the transmission down momentarily. You might also want to check all your bell housing and transmisson bolts and make sure they are tight.
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Unread 11-07-2009, 09:56 AM   #6
michanecash
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I'll go ahead and order some gl4 and give that a try. Should I drain the transfer case ttoo?

Regarding the Clutch adjustment. When you say about 1 to 1 and 1/2 inch free play, where exactly are you talking about? The changed the clutch adjstment in 79. The only place to adjust it is at a barell nut on the underside.
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Unread 11-07-2009, 04:19 PM   #7
80cj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michanecash View Post
I'll go ahead and order some gl4 and give that a try. Should I drain the transfer case ttoo?

Regarding the Clutch adjustment. When you say about 1 to 1 and 1/2 inch free play, where exactly are you talking about? The changed the clutch adjstment in 79. The only place to adjust it is at a barell nut on the underside.
The freeplay is measured at the clutch pedal. Barrel nut on the linkage is the adjustment. I believe that at least for 79-80, they are the same.
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Unread 11-08-2009, 07:57 PM   #8
Fjguercio
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yes change the transfer case too. On the Dana 20 they share fluids with the trans so a second reason to change it too. Lots of folks reporting hard to get out of 4wd and I begining to thinks its the GL5 there too.

Yep, put the GL4 in both. I have the Napa Gl4 in mine now, next time I change want to try the Amsoil MTF, Manual Trans Fluid/Syncromesh/ Their GL4.

Drive around for 50 miles if feels better you had a fluid problem, GL5, and should get better with use. Please post back if that / GL4 fixes your problem.


Also, since you stated your problem is new and getting worse, that is even more reason to think it has the wrong lubrication fluid, GL5 is in there.
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Unread 11-08-2009, 10:29 PM   #9
jeepdaddy2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio View Post
yes change the transfer case too. On the Dana 20 they share fluids with the trans so a second reason to change it too. Lots of folks reporting hard to get out of 4wd and I begining to thinks its the GL5 there too.

Yep, put the GL4 in both. I have the Napa Gl4 in mine now, next time I change want to try the Amsoil MTF, Manual Trans Fluid/Syncromesh/ Their GL4.

Drive around for 50 miles if feels better you had a fluid problem, GL5, and should get better with use. Please post back if that / GL4 fixes your problem.


Also, since you stated your problem is new and getting worse, that is even more reason to think it has the wrong lubrication fluid, GL5 is in there.
I'm curious to know how fluid viscosity has anything to do with a transmission grinding while trying to go into reverse when the vehicle isn't moving.
This is obviously a clutch (dis)engagement issue.
I get the feeling your selling AMSOIL

Usual causes for clutch problems.....
Worn or bad linkages: Check the holes in the bell crank and pedal for ovaling. Check to insure the bellcrank bushings are good and installed properly. Check the ends of the rods for wear grooves. Make sure all piviot points are tight and serviceable with little or no slop.
Body shifting: Insure the body isn't lifting or flexing when you press down on the pedal. Insure all body mounts are tight.
Too stiff of a clutch: Many "high performance" clutches have such heavy springs that they cause linkage problems and won't disengage properly.
Bellcrank in backwards.
Wrong T/O bearing.
Worn (grooved) transmission input bearing retainer.
Bent/damaged fork.
Fork pivot missing.
Bad or improperly installed clutch assembly.
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Unread 11-08-2009, 10:54 PM   #10
80cj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000 View Post
I'm curious to know how fluid viscosity has anything to do with a transmission grinding while trying to go into reverse when the vehicle isn't moving.
This is obviously a clutch (dis)engagement issue.
I get the feeling your selling AMSOIL

Usual causes for clutch problems.....
Worn or bad linkages: Check the holes in the bell crank and pedal for ovaling. Check to insure the bellcrank bushings are good and installed properly. Check the ends of the rods for wear grooves. Make sure all piviot points are tight and serviceable with little or no slop.
Body shifting: Insure the body isn't lifting or flexing when you press down on the pedal. Insure all body mounts are tight.
Too stiff of a clutch: Many "high performance" clutches have such heavy springs that they cause linkage problems and won't disengage properly.
Bellcrank in backwards.
Wrong T/O bearing.
Worn (grooved) transmission input bearing retainer.
Bent/damaged fork.
Fork pivot missing.
Bad or improperly installed clutch assembly.
I've been wondering the same too.
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Unread 11-08-2009, 11:22 PM   #11
Fatman
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It's the only song the town crier knows.

michane, adjust your clutch, you'll be fine.
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Unread 11-09-2009, 08:39 AM   #12
Fjguercio
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No I do not sell Amsoil, but I do feel its one of the best products for the Old Jeep Manual Trans and Transfer Cases.

It will be interesting to see if the GL4 Gear Lube solves the posters issues. It has for many many dozens of JeepForum Members so far.

GL5 is corrosive to Yellow Metal, brass/copper/phozebronze all oxidize in air alone. The oxidation is moldy looking and is tacky and keeps the parts for sliding and working properly.

GL5 has a higher film property to keep the hypoid gears from touching metal to metal under high pressure. GL5 is not the best choice for Trans/Transfer and GL4 is not rated for axle use except for very mild applications, but is recommened for manual gear boxes. They are different.

Just trying to help and get the rest of the folks on board with the proper lube, IMO

Fred
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Unread 11-12-2009, 10:23 AM   #13
80cj
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michanecash,
Have you resolved your problem yet? Just curious as to what the solution was if it's been resolved.
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Unread 11-22-2009, 09:28 AM   #14
Fjguercio
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Michanecash,

Looking at a few past posts.... Did the GL 4 Gear Lube help you out???? Let us know how things are going... has not been that long.. So how is it going.

Fred
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Unread 02-18-2010, 11:57 AM   #15
michanecash
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Sorry, I did not realize until now that people still posted in here. I did try the tranny fluid. Not much difference for me. It has to be something in the linkage or clutch, although nothing was evident when it was taken apart.

On a positive note I did find the leak. It is actually coming from the dana 20 seal under the yoke. It is a very bad leak. 1 quart per day on average. I will replace it this summer. Right now we are having the worst winter ever and I have 5 feet of snow all around my parking spot (live in Town house).

The only other thing I could think of is perhaps due to the lower pressure levels, caused by the leak, not enough fluid is moving throughout the tranny.

As far as I know the transfer case and tranny share fluid. So driving it, pushes the fluid back toward the transfer case and the seal where it is leaking.

Although filling the tranny up fully causes slightly better shifting, I do not believe that is the main cause of the issue. I am very good about filling the tranny up and not letting it get too low.
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