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Unread 10-22-2009, 02:13 PM   #1
Ford_Prefect
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1984 CJ7 
 
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Tranny or D300 whine...What the heck

Hello all

So I have had this whine in the jeep for...well, for ever... I was reading a thread the other day and the person mentioned having a bad whine in a D300 so I thought I would check into this and see if there is anything to be worried about, and if so what the costs to fix it are likely to be.

So when I am driving I get a fairly decent whine in the jeep. I assume it is in the Tranny or T-case, but I am not sure. The reason I guess that is because it only makes the noise when I am in gear. I have the t5 and D300 combo on an 84 CJ-7

Thanks for ANY and ALL information you can get to me.

(Tried the search and did not come up with anything)

Cheers
Brian

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Unread 10-22-2009, 02:25 PM   #2
Mike Romain
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We have the same drivetrain and no whine. Our old 88 Cherokee had a whine forever in it though, but that was not the same combo.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 02:28 PM   #3
Coiz
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So does this whine come in at specific speeds? If it is speed related, does it change if you change gears but keep the speed the same? While it is present, does it change or go away if you feather the throttle from load to no load?
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Unread 10-22-2009, 02:47 PM   #4
Ford_Prefect
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Nope, Moving at all is enough. IF it is in gear. Then again, when I get it up in 5th gear I do not hear it anymore. Two possible reasons there... Either it does not make the noise in 5th, OR the rest of the jeep is so loud in 5th that I can not distinguish the sound anymore.

B
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Unread 10-22-2009, 04:58 PM   #5
foggybottombob
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I think everything in my CJ whines. The t-case really whines in 4lo with the 4:1 in it. And reverse is even louder.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 02:17 PM   #6
Ford_Prefect
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Thanks,

So.... Basically, since few are responding, and no one seems to have a concern, I should not worry about it?
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Unread 10-23-2009, 02:58 PM   #7
Lordwrench
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You already said it's been that way forever.Seems long enough to show you a cause for worry,if there was going to be one.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 05:01 PM   #8
Tortured
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Try changing the fluids.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 05:18 PM   #9
Ford_Prefect
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Not a bad idea, it has been a while..

Thanks again all.

Brian
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Unread 10-23-2009, 05:39 PM   #10
Fjguercio
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Originally Posted by Fjguercio

Here is a POST from me a few days ago.... I just copied and pasted here so hope nobody minds. YOU WILL FIND NOTHING BUT GL5 GEAR LUBE ON THE STORE SHELVES, NOTHING BUT.... The GL5 GEAR LUBE is the wrong fluid for old JEEP CJ Manual Transmissions and Transfer Cases, can also cause the SYNCROS to start rattle/noise and not work well or shift well. GL5 HAS THE WRONG.... LUBRICATION PROPERTIES.... AND.... IT IS CORROSIVE TO YELLOW METALS USED IN MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS. Some have posted, many posted, they could hardly shift after some time. Changed to GL4 and got better and quieter. I have done this dozens of times with great results.

So Please copy this to your hard drive and spread the word. This could stop a lot of JEEP MANUAL TRANS FROM FAILURE AND REBUILD BEFORE THEIR TIME. TRY IT YOU WILL SEE.................


The confusion with the AMSOIL product its rated as oil viscosity and not Gear Lube viscosity. The TWO OIL VISCOSITY SCALES cross or equal at these weights…..AMSOIL MTF is what I am going to change to since I do not WATER CROSS so the installed life will be of benefit. I currently have the Napa GL4 installed and very pleased with the correction of operation and is getting even better over time…. Almost no syncro rattle now

THE AMSOIL MARINE GEAR LUBE CAN ALSO BE USED FOR......... GL4 GEAR LUBE, it meets the GL4 spec, it can absorb more water before oil failure. SO... for those of you that play in the water alot that may be a good choice.

I have spoke to Amsoil Tech Support and the Gear Lube Engineer..... This is confusing to MARKET. Using Gear Lube Weight for gear lubes and OIL LUBE WEIGHT for the MTF product. They are changing their lit and web site to use Gear Lube Weight for MTF / GL4 Product. Should be done sometime next year. A Chem Eng In OIL here on JeepForum and I had a WEB Discussion on this in detail.... seems the Oil Weight and Gear Lube Weight cross here at these numbers. I’ts just confusing.



My POST few days ago............

It your syncors rattling. The gear lube on the shelves is GL5 and is a product made for the pumpkins of these big large towing capacity tow rigs. The GL5 has the wrong lubrication properties and is corrosive to the yellow metals in manual transmisisons. All the BorgWarner Transmissions in the older Jeeps should use Gear Lube.

The RIGHT GEAR LUBE is GL4...... GL4...... GL4.... Napa Sells it, call them and ask them to order you 1-2 gallons and its like $15 a gallon. After 50 to 100 miles it will start shifting better and should start to get quite. My T18 did the same thing after I put the Gear Lube from the shelf.... it was GL5 and started shifting harder the the syncros starting rattle. Now almost silent and shift much better and its 32 years old.

Alternaitves Amsoil Syncromesh is a GL4 or Mobil 1 were both rated very high and and some of the least expensive on the list.



I have posted this up many times, many folks amazed with results. Frankly I am SHOCKED another fluid bad for our Little Jeeps ALL OVER THE SHELVES. I HAVE LOOKED YOU WILL ONLY FIND GL5 ON THE SHELVES. Good for your pumkins but not for the trans/transfer. Also add a magnet to both drain plugs to catch the metal particle. I also took a "stick magnet" and rubbed the bottom of trans/trans and got more out that way.

NAPA
SAE 85w90 Gear Oil GL4 (also meets GL3)
Part #SL24239
Mfg By Sta-Lube, sibisdary of CRC Industries
Bar Code 72213-24239
$15/gallon, phone order take 1-2 days to arrive, then pick it up, easy

I would also consider Amsoil MTF Syncromesh GL4 or the Mobil 1 Gear Lubes they were tops in performance and lower in cost that most. $8-10/quart.



Fred,

PS
Use GL5 Gear Lube in your Pumpkins and follow any recommendations for limited slip or locker additives.






APPLICATIONS For GL4 and Amsoil MTF Gear Lube their GL4
Recommended for automotive and light-truck applications that require synchromesh transmission fluid. Applications include manual transmissions and transaxles such as New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 2550, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600, and Tremec T4, T5, T18, T56, T176, TKO500, TKO600, TR 3450 and TR 3550. Replaces MTF-94 fluid for Land Rover, MG, and Mini Cooper. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF fluid for manual transaxles and Texaco MTX fluid. Not for use in engines, hypoid rear axles, limited-slip or wet clutch applications.




T5 .....Dexron III / Mercon, Mercon V use.....ATF.......
BUT....(except T5 from 1985 to 1991 use GL4 Gear Lube)


Here are some quotes... I had a GL5 experience and my syncros started to rattle and make noise. That could be some of what you are hearing is due to lube. I agree change your fluid and use the right stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Reinhardt View Post
Well - we'll do a little test but not as controlled as you're suggesting. I have a 1978 CJ-5 with a T150. It has 60k original miles on it (I've put the last 12k on it). It has always been extremely tight and shifted perfectly. About 1000-1500 miles ago I replaced all the fluids in the drive train. The trans gear oil was replaced with a "compatible/multi-spec" NAPA lubricant and shifting from 1st to 2nd has slowly changed. I was concerned about the syncro issue as this subject has come up in the forum before but we all believed the "compatible" claim. Now, if I do a normal quick (not fast/speed) 1st to 2nd shift I get a small grind. If I do a slight pause between gears all is well suggesting there may be something going on with the syncro. This change has been slight but progressive and all since the fluid was replaced. In the next couple days I'm going to have the trans fluid replaced. Obviously it will not actually repair any existing degradation but it may possibly stop any further progression. I'll post my thoughts/findings after I put some miles on it but I don't put a top on my Jeep so it will depend on decent weather - 50*+ and hopefully some sunshine. I know my CJ extremely well so I'm pretty sure I'll be able to tell any potential difference even though it's not controlled.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Reinhardt View Post
In my post above (#31) I said I'd change my oil and see if it made a difference. Well - today was beautiful in Virginia Beach - 70*'s so I went looking for oil. To make a long story short, I could not find any 90W/GL4 oil and I tried a few places. I wound up going to a 4 wheel drive shop (Eastern) that has a great reputation. They recommended Royal Purple 75w90 and I bought it. It's not cheap but how often do you change it? The T150 required less than 2 quarts (about 3 pints) so it's not that bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Reinhardt View Post

So what happened. You can't really establish cause and effect proof in this kind of test but my trans no longer grinds when I shift from 1st to 2nd quickly and everything is extremely positive and tight again. I've only driven it about 25 miles since I changed to the Royal Purple but there's an honest difference. I'm sure there are a lot of other gear lubes that would have had a similar effect. All I'm saying is the choice of oil does make a difference. If I have any different findings after driving it for a while I'll post them.

Here's a link to a tech sheet on Royal Purple. Look on page #2. It says it passed the copper/bronze test. EDIT: Also read page #1 top paragraph of right hand column.

http://www.royalpurple.com/prod-pdfs/max-gear-ps.pdf





Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy5150 View Post
My t-18 is sensitive to fluid level. When I first got my cj back on the road with the 360/t-18, I used 80/90 gl-5. It shifted great for about 3500 mi, then going into 3rd got increasingly difficult. I switched to redline 80/90 synthetic gl-4, but only 3 qts.(everyone was out of it). This left the tranny 1/2 pint low.I didn,t think it would make much difference. A week later I added the last 1/2 pint, and shifted great, and seems like its still improving.




Quote:
Originally Posted by kercher View Post
Fred, I am not trying to cause any issues here and I think both NO Bs and I are in the same boat. We are just trying to sort through all the info to understand what is going on. I have now read through several of the links and threads on this and it just doesn't make sense to me why some claim the can get away with GL5 and some can't. I think in one thread, someone suggested an additive on some GL5 gear lubes that is not in others. I can understand your frustration b/c you really have written the same post in about 10 threads and it has been met with some skeptism. I hope this is the answer to my problems, but, I'd like to know a little more about why some can get away with GL5 and some can't. A little more info never hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kercher View Post

My transmission and tcase are drained and the GL4 (Redline MT-90 cuz I have some) goes in tonight. Then I am going for a nice long test drive.

Additionally, I carefully read through my FSM this morning and there is a small note that states, "hard shifting is most often a result of the incorrect gear lube."

Wish me luck. Thanks again for repeatedly posting the info.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kercher View Post
well i still can't believe it but I changed the tranny and tcase fluid to MT90 GL4 and went for a 45 minute drive in town. After 10-15 minutes, it really loosened up and shifting was as easy and smoothe as it has ever been. I had none of the issues I was experiencing before with hard shifting. Unbelievable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kercher View Post


Thanks very much Fred (and others)! I feel like I am driving a totally different jeep now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kercher View Post




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio View Post
Kercher,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio View Post

YOU are welcome... one of the cheapest fixes you will ever have. Now if we can get the other 50,000 Jeepers on board.

This is true for many of the Jeep Transmissions and Transfercases not just the T-18.

This is about the tenth time I have done this so far. I would encourage others to review the Amsoil White Page on gear lubes and get one of the higher rated products. Still cheap if going to be in there for 5-10 years. Some of us may still have the orginal gear lube. Some of the gear lubes did not get rated all that well. If not for the Amsoil work and I would not be helping the folks here on JF. They deserve some of our business. End of summer 2009 Amsoil will be going in my T-18, the dyno GL4 will have been in there for a year. I want to try the Amsoil.
Best regards,
Fred

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