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Unread 02-01-2006, 02:51 AM   #16
Bill USN-1
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Why is there no discussion on a retrofit of the later MPFI system?

Anyone do it cheap?

And I don't mean I heard from a guy that got a motor from a friend that ...................

Ya know...some real world info that can be shared..
with prices that someone can duplicate!!!

Not some Yuppie with an unlimited budget build that runs to chrysler and buys a package!!!

Parts required, wiring, problems encountered.....cost.


This TOTW is one way!!!

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Unread 02-01-2006, 10:28 AM   #17
rjcj-8
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Personally from what i 've seen the ones doing the 4.0 MPI just transplant the 4.0 motor or use their crank and rods to stroke the 4.0.

Retro fitting the 4.0 MPI has a couple of high dollar parts/mods that make the TBI conversion look great. It requires a crank position sensor that requires a new harmonic balancer or a 4.0 fly wheel and a mod to the bell housing for the sensor.

There were a couple I think John Strenk being one i believe was throwing around the idea of the MPI with a mega squirt controller and having it fire in batch mode.
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Unread 02-01-2006, 04:07 PM   #18
jadams68
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Writeup updated: http://bustedjeep.com/projects/junkyardtbi.asp

Latest Updates:

Tom provided detail CAD drawings of various adapter plates for 1 barrel and 2 barrel AMC 258 intakes.

Thanks Tom!
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Unread 02-01-2006, 10:51 PM   #19
hollywood
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I've been following the write-up @BustedJeep and I have a few suggestions. Could you post pictures of each connector/sensor, with it's name and a brief description of where it goes on the motor/vehicle? Also, could you explain the use of relays? I'm determined to figure this out, and I'll be attemting it soon.

Thanks
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Unread 02-01-2006, 11:30 PM   #20
ChiliPepperTJ
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I'm the one doing the actual tbi system with everyones help and taking the pics and sending them to James. I'll take pics of each sensor and plug and where they go on the engine. I'll explain a relay for you: A relay is a switch that allows you to get power directly from a battery to an accessory. It has 4 basic connections that are labeled by #'s next to the connectors on it.
#30 is the 12v fused input (directly frm the battery with an inline fuse to the relay)
#85 is the relay ground
#86 is 12v that turn the relay on off (from a key on hot source)
#87 is power out to the accessory
#87a (some relays have this, it is a second power out, just like #87)

So when the key is turned to on, power goes from a 12v source (that is hot with the key on) to the relay, that relay has a little switch inside it that then makes a connection from the connection to the battery to the connection to the accessory. That way you don't loose power from old wiring or from traveling throuh a lot of resistance through long wires.
HTH
Kevin

BTW I just sent James a bunch of pics of parts I purchased for the tbi setup (fuel pump o2 sensor etc.) That should be up soon.
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84 CJ-7 Renegade- 258,GM TBI w/ ESC, HEI, T-5, D300, D30, AMC 20 w/ trac loc and superior shafts, 2.5" BDS lift, 1" daystar BL, MORE shackles, Tie rod flip, 33" Swamper SSR's, Full cage, OBA, A to Z rocker guards, A to Z rear cage, Warn 9.5ti, Taurus fan, Herc'd tub, LED tail lights, Hand throttle, Hella Fogs, Hella headlight conversion, more to come...

02 WJ Limited, 4.7 H.O., RB1 Nav, DD and toddler hauler

Checkout my Junkyard TBI writeup: http://www.bustedjeep.com/projects/junkyardtbi.asp
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Unread 02-02-2006, 12:20 AM   #21
Bill USN-1
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One note, If the relay has an 87 and an 87A they will be opposites.

Meaning when 87 is on 87A will be off.

If your relay has 2- 87's then they will both be on at the same time.

I Learned this the hard way.

Quote:
If you use a bosch style relay here are the pins:
There are several different versions of the relay out there so look at the pin numbers before you buy one.

30-12v fused input(should also hook up your org ECM constant 12v to this wire)
85- Gnd
86- 12vdc from ign sw(black wire that was hooked up to the coil +)
87- pink/blk, pink(ignition, ecm power)
87- red, white(injectors)

there are 2- 87 output terminals on the SPST 5 terminal relay so you can use both.


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Unread 02-02-2006, 07:17 AM   #22
ChiliPepperTJ
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Cool I didn't know that, thanks Bill.
Kevin
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84 CJ-7 Renegade- 258,GM TBI w/ ESC, HEI, T-5, D300, D30, AMC 20 w/ trac loc and superior shafts, 2.5" BDS lift, 1" daystar BL, MORE shackles, Tie rod flip, 33" Swamper SSR's, Full cage, OBA, A to Z rocker guards, A to Z rear cage, Warn 9.5ti, Taurus fan, Herc'd tub, LED tail lights, Hand throttle, Hella Fogs, Hella headlight conversion, more to come...

02 WJ Limited, 4.7 H.O., RB1 Nav, DD and toddler hauler

Checkout my Junkyard TBI writeup: http://www.bustedjeep.com/projects/junkyardtbi.asp
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Unread 02-02-2006, 03:21 PM   #23
jadams68
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Writeup has been updated: http://www.bustedjeep.com/projects/junkyardtbi.asp
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Unread 02-02-2006, 04:07 PM   #24
Blthomas
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Ok, so you guys are Gods in my little world for putting this together for a nitwit like myself to build.

Awesome pics and CAD drawings. The writeup is ultra cool to boot.

Couple dumb questions.....bear with me,

1. For o2 sensor, you say a older Jeep won't have a sensor in the exhaust. I don't remember seeing one on my 79', but does that mean I'm not looking in the right place, or do I need to plan for putting in a bung?

2. You say you had a pre-92' TB, and a 92' GM harness. Did the parts come from the same donor, maybe we need to look out for that issue, or did you scavenge more than one donor? How do you know if you have the right/needed TPS?

3. 8pin GM module, For ECM controlled spark. Is this recommneded, to have the ECM run that? IS there a general preferance?

4. Adaptor plate drawings. The one (fuel lines facing front), when you click the link, it says "Gas lines face firewall", in the upper right corner of the pic.

(fuel lines facing rear), when you click that link, it says "Gas lines toward rad".

What are you meaning? If they face "rear", shoudln't the gas lines be toward the fire wall? If they face front, shouldn't the gas lines be towards the rad? I'm confused by the wording and wouldn't want the plate made wrong.

Or are you refering to how our current carb is setup and use that as a guide for which way plate we want to get cut?

5. Going HEI. Can I pull it from a related or same donor as the TBI donor?

6. Total cost so far?


THanks.
Blair
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Unread 02-02-2006, 05:37 PM   #25
ChiliPepperTJ
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here are some answers:

1. My cj is a 84 but I have a 79 258 in it. No o2 sensor on a 79 258, it wasn't computer controlled. You'll have to do what I'm fdoing with the o2 sensor weld ring.

2. I had to go to 2 different donors. The Wiring harness came from a 92 chevy fullsize pickup with a 4.3 v6 and the TB came from an 89-90ish s10 blazer. Thats why I had the tps plug problem.

3. I think you can run it just off the tah signal, thats how the howell kit is but not sure, I'll let someone else answer that...

4. I'm not sure of this either, I didn't do the drawings CJ51973 did.

5. It depends I guess you could to make it easier, but I don't think anyone has done that yet. I pulled my large cap HEI (coils in the cap) at the u-pull it from a chevy fullsize van from the easly 80's with a 250 straight 6.

6. Heres a rough estimate cost:
TB and wiring from the yard $45
ECM from ebay $51
adapter plate $20 (got from someones old howell kit)
fuel pump $75
Miscellaneous parts (fuel line, o2 sensor, rebuild kit for tb $70

so around $261 at the moment
HTH
Kevin
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84 CJ-7 Renegade- 258,GM TBI w/ ESC, HEI, T-5, D300, D30, AMC 20 w/ trac loc and superior shafts, 2.5" BDS lift, 1" daystar BL, MORE shackles, Tie rod flip, 33" Swamper SSR's, Full cage, OBA, A to Z rocker guards, A to Z rear cage, Warn 9.5ti, Taurus fan, Herc'd tub, LED tail lights, Hand throttle, Hella Fogs, Hella headlight conversion, more to come...

02 WJ Limited, 4.7 H.O., RB1 Nav, DD and toddler hauler

Checkout my Junkyard TBI writeup: http://www.bustedjeep.com/projects/junkyardtbi.asp
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Unread 02-02-2006, 06:18 PM   #26
hollywood
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Chilli - thanks for the relay explanation (you too Billl). I can't wait to get started on this.
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Unread 02-02-2006, 06:27 PM   #27
Aphelion79
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I'm also looking into how to upgrade to TBI on the 151 Iron Duke... aparently the Chevy S10 guys have gotten into this and I'm currently doing some research on it, however I have no idea what in the heck I'm even lookin' for so give me some time!

EDIT: I actually just found a very nice page that shows there are different catagories of the Iron Duke:

The "Iron Duke Hurricane" was used in exclusively in Jeep CJs, ironicly this was the last engine of the Iron Duke line to be carburated.. the Tech IV was the first model of the Iron Dukes to be fitted with TBI.

The vehicles with this system:
Applications:
1985-1993 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer /GMC S-15 Jimmy
Pontiac Fiero


Howerver there was a special version of the Iron Duke that was actually made for NASCAR! This was called the Super Duty 4 and was not actually a production engine for normal vehicles making this block rather expensive in todays market.

This comming Tuesday I may make a trip to the local junkyard to check out some of those vehicles that are mentioned above to view and compare to my current Duke's setup... More Info to follow!

The Chevy Blazers:
(VIN E)
1985-1989 - 2.5 L Tech IV I4 , TBI , 92 hp (69 kW)/132 ft.lbf(179 Nm)

(VIN A)
1990-1993 - 2.5 L Tech IV I4 , TBI , 105 hp (78 kW)/135 ft.lbf (183 Nm)


The Fierros:

Possibly 1984: but for sure,

1985 4cyl 5 speed MT2 3.35 3.73 2.04 1.45 1.03 0.74 3.50
1988 4cyl 5 speed MT2 3.35 3.73 2.04 1.45 1.03 0.74 3.50
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Last edited by Aphelion79; 02-02-2006 at 06:42 PM..
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Unread 02-02-2006, 07:53 PM   #28
Tshark299
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Alot of other GMs came with the Tech4 Iron Duke too, and might be easier to find in a junkyard than a Fiero. I know all the A-bodies and at least some N-bodies used them... X-bodies used them too but since they were dicontinued in 1985 they might only have carb'd ones... not sure about that.

The A-bodies especially (Chevy Celebrity, Pontiac 6000, Olds Ciera, and Buick Century) are a dime a dozen in the U-pull yards around here. I'm pretty sure at least the mid-'80s and later versions were TBI. Not sure if they ever went MPFI in those cars...
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Unread 02-02-2006, 07:56 PM   #29
jadams68
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4) sorry my fault...had em backwards... it's fixed now.
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Unread 02-02-2006, 08:02 PM   #30
Aphelion79
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Wow Thanks! I missed that! The Iron Duke came in a heck of a lot more cars than I thought! I'll keep you guys posted... in the meantime, does anyone know if anything about the engine is different other than the TBI between the "Hurricane" and the "Tech IV?"
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T177 Tranny | Dana 300 T-Case
Dana 30 Front | AMC 20 Rear
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