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Unread 03-31-2009, 01:08 PM   #1
mike06X
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torqueflite 727; governor adjustment

now that i have 4.10 gears and 35" tires; my fresh built 727 shifts early; I've been through the tv cable adjustment procedure; i have all lokar hardware, and also the 'corrector' plate in my holley carburetor (not sure it does anything); i have full travel of throttle from idle to wide open, and the trans TV cable moves correspondingly..i've added slack, made it tighter, i've read all the posts here, and what lokar tech and holley tech said, and from what i've been reading, i believe i need different springs setup in the governor assembly; as its a issue with driveshaft -> vehicle mph being off w/ different gears, tires, load, etc..My shifts are good, and get firmer the harder i accelerate; but it won't hold a gear long enough to get the revs up..

so..anyone been down this avenue before? I get a shifts around 2800-3000rpms, wide open..of course if i shift manually, i get change whenever i want, but even with the TV cable maxed out (i've verified the position of the arm on the transmission) it won't shift any later..I would like it to shift around 5k, should I decide to hold the pedal to the metal..so i guess what i'm looking for is some info on changing the springs in the governor, as from what i've read in the 727 rebuilding books, this is what actually controls the mph of shifts..

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Unread 03-31-2009, 03:35 PM   #2
dwloop
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1976 CJ5 
 
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I had to adjust mine to tune the shift points after the the procedure you are speaking of. What it ends up is that the transmission throttle linkage prevents full throttle on the carb when mine is adjusted to shift the way it should, but not by much. To really correct it the arm on the carb would have to be adjusted for length somehow, or use a spring that allows the throttle plate to open after the transmission has met its stop... Make sense??

Just my 2c and how I corrected it. Others may have better suggestions.

HTH

Dave
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Unread 03-31-2009, 06:22 PM   #3
mike06X
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yes, makes sense, a spring to allow the throttle to open past where the point the trans cable tops out..i can do this and 'rig it temporarily, it will increase the rpms of the shifts; but i think to do it right i need to make a change to the governor assembly..
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Unread 03-31-2009, 08:02 PM   #4
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwloop View Post
I had to adjust mine to tune the shift points after the the procedure you are speaking of. What it ends up is that the transmission throttle linkage prevents full throttle on the carb when mine is adjusted to shift the way it should, but not by much. To really correct it the arm on the carb would have to be adjusted for length somehow, or use a spring that allows the throttle plate to open after the transmission has met its stop... Make sense??

Just my 2c and how I corrected it. Others may have better suggestions.

HTH

Dave
How about using the Chrysler Bracket on the Holley throttle linkage?
After all, that's what it's made for!
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Unread 03-31-2009, 08:31 PM   #5
JeepHammer
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1973 CJ5 
 
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Location: South West Indiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike06X View Post
now that i have 4.10 gears and 35" tires; my fresh built 727 shifts early; I've been through the tv cable adjustment procedure; i have all lokar hardware, and also the 'corrector' plate in my holley carburetor (not sure it does anything); i have full travel of throttle from idle to wide open, and the trans TV cable moves correspondingly..i've added slack, made it tighter, i've read all the posts here, and what lokar tech and holley tech said, and from what i've been reading, i believe i need different springs setup in the governor assembly; as its a issue with driveshaft -> vehicle mph being off w/ different gears, tires, load, etc..My shifts are good, and get firmer the harder i accelerate; but it won't hold a gear long enough to get the revs up..

so..anyone been down this avenue before? I get a shifts around 2800-3000rpms, wide open..of course if i shift manually, i get change whenever i want, but even with the TV cable maxed out (i've verified the position of the arm on the transmission) it won't shift any later..I would like it to shift around 5k, should I decide to hold the pedal to the metal..so i guess what i'm looking for is some info on changing the springs in the governor, as from what i've read in the 727 rebuilding books, this is what actually controls the mph of shifts..
You are all over the place, so I'm going to try and get this on a diagnosis track again...

Did you set up the line pressure valve correctly, with the 1-5/16" spacing before you tried to set up the 'Throttle Valve Adjustments?

Did you check the line pressure after adjustment?
(one turn will adjust throttle closed line pressure 1-2/3 PSI)
Without the correct tools, you MAY have to take the pan on and off a few times to get this correct, but it's worth the aggravation.

If you DID NOT set up the Line Pressure Adjustment before you started, you may be getting WAY too much,
Or WAY too little pressure to the governor during operation.

Virtually Every "Fast" or "Slow" shift complaint I've ever worked on started right here...
-------------------------

During your 'Throttle Valve' adjustments, did you use a gauge on the pressure ports so you know what the pressures are?
-------------------------

Do you have an idea of what the governor pressure is at idle at the governor test port?

Most people contemplating tinkering with the governor didn't even know there WAS a governor pressure test port!

Governor changes will often mean the removal of the transfer case, and that is something to think about if you haven't tested for correct pressure settings...
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Unread 03-31-2009, 09:05 PM   #6
mike06X
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I did not run a pressure gauge; by the sounds of what you said, i think that should be my next step..i do not have a line pressure gauge, nor would i know what to look for..from my reading i've done in book i know adjustments can be between 120 (lazy) - 180psi (HP applications)..regardless; i did not set up the adjustment before i started..are there also shims and springs and valves that come into play? and different lever ratios?

honestly; i could use an education on automatic transmissions..the guy who did the rebuild for me a few months ago was diagnosed with cancer, and left the business to return back to tennesse with his family..he's always done good work for me, and if he were still here, i'd just bring it down and he'd be happy to help me out..

So, i'm on my own with this one; i dont mind the aggrevation of doing it myself to make it shift right..from what i'm gather though; a line pressure adjustment sounds much better than springs & shims in the governor, not to mention dissassembly and reassembly just to see if it is 'better'.

my basic symptom is - shifts too soon..what would you suggest as my next step or could elaborate a little on the adjustment?
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Unread 03-31-2009, 10:53 PM   #7
JeepHammer
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OK!

To start with, these are your pressure test ports,

RIGHT SIDE


REAR


---------------------------------------------------

With the pan off, this is the Line Pressure Adjust Starting Point.
YOU WILL NEED A PRESSURE GAUGE FOR THIS!
------------------------------

HYDRAULIC CONTROL PRESSURE ADJUSTMENTS
Line Pressure,
(pay attention, this first sentence is a KILLER!)

An incorrect Throttle Pressure Setting will cause incorrect Line Pressure READINGS,
Even though Line Pressure Adjustment is correct.


ALWAYS inspect and correct throttle pressure adjustment BEFORE adjusting the line pressure!
.....................

The approximate adjustment is 1-5/16", measured from valve body to inner edge of adjusting nut (Fig. 6)

However, due to manufacturing tolerances the adjustment can be varied to obtain specified line pressure...
The adjusting screw may be turned with an Allen wrench.
One complete turn of the adjusting screw changes CLOSED THROTTLE LINE PRESSURE approximately 1-2/3 PSI per revolution.
Turning adjusting screw COUNTER-Clockwise increases pressure,
While turning Clockwise Decreases pressure.




-----------------------------------

THROTTLE PRESSURE,

Throttle Pressures CAN NOT be tested accurately, therefore, the adjustment should be measured if a malfunction is evident.

1. Insert pin of Tool C-3763 between the throttle lever cam and kick down valve (Fig. 7)

2. By pushing in on the tool, compress kick down valve against it's spring so throttle valve is completely bottomed inside the valve body.
(I use a small, long nose punch to bottom out the valve, you don't really need a specialty tool)

3. As force is being exerted to compress the spring,
Turn the throttle lever stop screw with Allen wrench until the head of screw touches the throttle lever tang with throttle lever cam touching tool and the throttle valve bottomed.
Be sure adjustment is made with spring fully compressed and the valve bottomed in the valve body.


Throttle Valve Adjustment,



Bottom out the Kick down valve in it's bore,
Screw in the Allen bolt until the bolt head touches the throttle lever.

Not as hard as it sounded in the official version, but holding in that valve can be a pain in the butt!



Keep watching this tread, I'll post more as I get it scanned...

Last edited by JeepHammer; 03-31-2009 at 11:57 PM..
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Unread 04-01-2009, 09:55 AM   #8
mike06X
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thanks for the info! typically, am i looking for more -or- less governor line pressure to hold a gear longer?

besides a pan gasket + fluid; anything else needed for dissassembly/reassembly? is there a gasket behind the valve body that needs replaced as well after dissassembly of just the transfer plate? (i do my projects at night after work; and parts stores are closed - so proper planning ahead is crucial for me )
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Unread 04-01-2009, 11:53 AM   #9
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike06X View Post
thanks for the info! typically, am i looking for more -or- less governor line pressure to hold a gear longer?
Actually, you need to START with the correct line pressure and throttle valve operation before you start 'dinking' with the governor...
All this has to be checked anyway, so you just have to do the static testing (shown above) and go from there.

Once Line Pressure and Throttle Valve are adjusted, you can then start 'Dinking' with the governor!
---------------------------------

Quote:
besides a pan gasket + fluid; anything else needed for dissassembly/reassembly?
A willingness to get greasy!
---------------------

After 'Static' adjustment, you will have to plug in a gauge and 'Fine Tune' the adjustments, but I RARELY have to take the pan off again using those instructions.
They are usually right within tolerances with the listed information.
---------------------

Quote:
is there a gasket behind the valve body that needs replaced as well after dissassembly of just the transfer plate?
(i do my projects at night after work; and parts stores are closed - so proper planning ahead is crucial for me )
(Just curious, but why do you want to take the valve body out?
You can do the line and throttle valve adjustments with the valve body in the transmission...)

It's been a while, but I'm sure there is One gasket, but I'm not completely sure if there is more, and there is a gasket on both sides of the plate.

You shouldn't have to crack the valve body from the transfer plate if you are careful!
--------------------------------

Governor...

Start with ZERO to 1.5 psi at Stand Still.
Anymore than that and DOWN SHIFTS may not occur.

You MAY have to change the governor springs/valve, but you MUST get the line pressures correct first!

Those 35" tires are REALLY giving you fits now!
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Unread 10-24-2013, 03:29 PM   #10
Mack83
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Old thread but good thread. While I have my pan off I better check this stuff out on mine too.
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Unread 10-24-2013, 05:05 PM   #11
Rollbar
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Thanks, thinking of installing a 727.
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