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Unread 09-29-2014, 03:38 PM   #1
KayakWarrior
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Timing issues and carbueration concerns

This may need to be addressed in two different threads, but i will start with one just in case. Please don't stress as i am still in my 1st month of this forum.

I have a 1979 CJ-7,258 CI, Carter BBl Carb, TH400 Tranny. Trucks spews dark gassy smoke as if it is firing in the exhaust stroke and the plugs are very black and sooty (not oily)

It seems as if the timing is whacked, but i am not sure because this could all be related to the Carb being maladjusted, but i am not sure so here i am.

The timing mark is at 8 degrees before TDC, the distributor (vac advance is at a 7:30 to 8:00 position while the rotor is pointed at about 4:30 or 5:00..Front being 6:00 and back being 12:00 for reference purposes). The number 1 cylinder is at top dead Center on the compression stroke.

It doesn't run clean enough to try pulling plugs one at a time because it seems like its firing in between stroke and sometimes misfires or seems to hit two at once (ground firing in the distributor cap?) It stalls if i am not right there at the throttle also so its hard to get a diagnostic check.

Can't afford a new carb or a mechanic so i am doing the best i can by myself. Need to clean up the idle and get it to run like it should. Is the distributor not setup in the correct position? Does the timing setup seem correct or should i be trying to reset the distributor. Should I be fooling with the carb 1st?

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

timing-tdc.jpg

distributer-gear.jpg

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Unread 09-29-2014, 04:36 PM   #2
AZ_Chip
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What do the coil wires look like? Are the spark plug wires connected to the proper cylinders and at the cap correctly? How old are the spark plug wires? Do you have a better picture of the rotor? Cannot see the tip to see if it is intact. Is there a good spark at each cylinder? How old is the gas in your tank? Fuel filter?
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Unread 09-29-2014, 04:53 PM   #3
JeepHammer
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This is looking a lot like someone has moved plug wires around the cap after a timing chain slip...

What I would do is start at the beginning,

1. Compression stroke of #1,
Make sure you have the top of compression stroke, not the top of exhaust stroke.

2. Locate #1 piston at TDC,

3. Check the balancer AFTER you VERIFY COMPRESSION and VERIFY TDC of #1 piston.
The balancer 'Hash' mark should be at ZERO, if it's 8 degrees off zero, it's time for a new balancer.
A degree or two is normal, more than that the balancer outer ring has slipped on the hub, time for a new one.

4. Locate the #1 plug wire on the distributor cap,
Mark the location of the #1 plug wire terminal on the distributor base.
Be as precise as possible so you know EXACTLY where the #1 plug wire tower is when the cap is off the distributor base.

5. Flip the cap, see where the rotor is pointing.
If it's NOT pointing at your mark for #1, distributor set is off on the camshaft.

Once you have done this basic stuff DO NOT move the crank and get back with us with TESTING RESULTS.

One thing I would do is check the firing order.
This sounds like you have the distributor in the wrong place on the camshaft,
The camshaft is off time with the crank (Slipped timing chain),
Or the firing order is wrong.

It could also be the harmonic balancer is lying to you, but that shouldn't present the symptoms you describe...
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Unread 09-29-2014, 08:32 PM   #4
KayakWarrior
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I rotated the crank back and forth once I had Cylinder #1 at T.D.C. The rotor button immediately moved in both directions, so I am assuming that means no slop in the timing chain. I think the vacuum port on the distributor should be pointing toward the front of the motor, but its about 45 degrees off and aiming towards the front corner of the passenger tire. The plug wires are installed in the correct order, but not on the correct location on the cap. Thinking maybe the distributor was installed out of correct position by previous owner and plug wires were swapped to accommodate the error.

The cap and button are clean and in good shape and the plug wires are also new (only 7mm wires though). Every plug is covered in a layer of powdery black soot.
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Unread 09-30-2014, 01:13 AM   #5
Matt1981CJ7
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There is no right or wrong orientation for the distributor. It can point in any direction you want, as long as A) the rotor points to the correct plug wire at the proper time, B) the wires are in the correct order, and C) there is enough rotational room to make timing adjustments.

Yours is sitting fine, if the above conditions are met.

Matt
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Unread 09-30-2014, 05:23 AM   #6
Mike Romain
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I would be first checking to see if the choke is opening. A stuck choke can cause those symptoms. The choke needs power to the black cap on the side of the carb to work, maybe the wire got knocked off?
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Unread 09-30-2014, 05:47 AM   #7
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayakWarrior View Post
The timing mark is at 8 degrees before TDC, the distributor (vac advance is at a 7:30 to 8:00 position while the rotor is pointed at about 4:30 or 5:00..Front being 6:00 and back being 12:00 for reference purposes). The number 1 cylinder is at top dead Center on the compression stroke.
I just re-read this and need to ask...are you saying the timing mark is at 8* when cylinder #1 is at TDC? If so, you're timing chain, or balancer, has slipped.

The hash mark should be at 0* when #1 is TDC.

Matt
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Unread 09-30-2014, 06:28 AM   #8
KayakWarrior
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Let me 1st say that being 1/2 way through my 4th decade, I have accepted the fact that my days of Eagle Eyed Vision are behind me. Waited for good light this morning and popped off the cap for a picture with less glare in it. The 3 wires that go into the distributor had been laid nicely inside the cap but when the cap goes down, a nice pinch point is created. Its a wonder they aren't shorted completely in half. This jeep obviously not in the "perfect operational condition" and the deeper i dig, the more of these little wonders I find.

Guess I will be at the Parts store instead of eating lunch again. Who knew an old CJ7 could be such a good weight loss program!!
distributor-internals.jpg

distributor-wire-short.jpg

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Unread 09-30-2014, 06:31 AM   #9
KayakWarrior
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Also, I may be a degree or two off as I am finding TDC... I am trying to do this by myself most of the time, as my shop helper is my 10 year old son.

As the above pictures show, I doubt either of the two wires inside the cap are even making a complete circuit in the shape they are in.
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Unread 09-30-2014, 06:46 AM   #10
Matt1981CJ7
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Good catch, Kayak.

Are you going to repair it, or buy new?

If you buy new, make sure it has the correct advance head. It should have 13R and 18R stamp on it. You can see the stamps thru the little square peep hole in the top-plate of the dizzy.

Matt
dizzyrework4.jpg  
dizzypeephole.jpg

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Unread 09-30-2014, 10:37 AM   #11
KayakWarrior
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Tight spot to crimp, solder, and heat-shrink, but i managed to make a shade tree repair to hold me over.
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Unread 09-30-2014, 10:39 AM   #12
KayakWarrior
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Here's a picture of my handiwork
distributor-repair.jpg

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Unread 09-30-2014, 10:51 AM   #13
Matt1981CJ7
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Nice work!

Did it solve the performance problems?

Matt
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Unread 09-30-2014, 11:11 AM   #14
KayakWarrior
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I do not plan on buying anything new if i don't have to, just repair everything I can and replace only what Is absolutely imperative. Don't have money to play with, this is going to be my long term daily driver. It just needs to be fun, reliable, and safe for my son to ride in. That being said I really got to find some seats and seat belts. The front bench-seat came from a van and as a hunt jeep, seat-belts were unnecessary.

Anyhow, l gotta figure this timing thing out because it wont start at all now, timing has to be goofed worse now.
Could this possibly be slipping time at the distributor gear?
I went back through Jeep-Hammer's posting and I am going to start over and go through it all again. It seems like it is between 45 and 90 degrees off of what it should be.
If I pull the distributor, should I put it in with the vacuum facing forward, or leave it diagonal, like it currently is?
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Unread 09-30-2014, 11:23 AM   #15
Matt1981CJ7
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As I said already, the orientation of the distributor doesn't matter as long as the rotor is firing the correct wire at the proper time, and the firing order is correct. Your distributer is fine at is sits.

I'd find TDC of the compression stroke of #1 cylinder, then confirm your timing marks line up. The hash mark should be close to 0* on the scale. Then confirm the rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire.

Matt
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