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Unread 01-16-2010, 08:05 AM   #16
rrtex1
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1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 496
What is the best oil to use in a 304 V8?

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1981 CJ7 AMC304
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Unread 01-16-2010, 08:43 AM   #17
Fjguercio
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1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 2,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio View Post
yep... you should run std oil in a rebuilt engine for 5000 miles or so... then you can use synthetic.

Also some pretty smart guys say carbed engines contaminate the oil too quick to get the extended change intervals so std oil is most likely the best choice..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dngrs1 View Post
OK, I really hate to bring this thread "back from the dead" but this statement has really made me lose sleep at night.

Exactly how do fuel vapors from carbed engines contaminate the oil in the cranckcase and fuel injected engines donot??
Dear Dngrs,

The FI engines spary/inject the fuel, have closed loop sensors, computers that read the engine and correct many times per second. The atomization of the fuel/air is much better and its a much advanced combustion. A carb is set/tune for the best of conditions and is set. The FI can take temp, pres, O2 calc for air volume and is just a better combustion. That is why many FI engines get 25 to nearly 40mpg now and a carb will never touch that. Carb engines usually have to set on the rich side or could be toooo lean for some situations, lugging, trailer towing, off road, even min cooling could be considered.

The extra fuel is still in the air/fuel mixture and there is always some blow by. The blow by contaminates the oil on the back side of the pistons/cylinder walls. The hot gases from combustion will also condensate on the cooler engine surfaces internal and then be washed with oil splash etc. That is why we have the PCV system also... the blow by get to the internal part of engine, warm air rises up past the lifter/oil drain area and up to the valve cover. That is where the PCV is, the gases rise up and sucked back into the carb to be reburned. Keeps the engine cleaner and the enviroment. The air cleaner cleaned fresh air usually goes in the back the valve cover to help the engine gases move to front and extract.

The idea with synthetics is the oil does not break down with pres and temps and last longer at the molecular level. The molecule stands between the metal surface and tries to survive and does so much better than dyno oil. But with tooooo much gas the lubrication quality of the oil (both) go down. The oil will start looking black and in very rich run conditions it will smell like oil. If you are BLACK OIL and STINK LIKE GAS OIL change your oil and filter ASAP.

As an example, when I first go my weber carb it ran pretty well but was rich. After 1000 miles my oil was pretty black. When jetted correctly, tweeked my ignition and installed a CDI MultiSpark Ignition, the oil is now clear after 1000 miles or little less. Keeping in mind its a new rebuilt long block and does not have 100k like many of us do.

I learned this caution and thought process from JeepHammer and he is one of the sharpest guys here on JeepForum. You can use synthetic in a carbed engine, our old jeep engines, but you will not get the 6k or 7k change intervals that you could get from a modern FI engine. Also learned that the oil gets acids and moisture contamination with use and these cause corrosion, surface pits, and not good for engines.

JeepHammer said it, I agree, many times see printed change your oil 3000 miles or 3months. When you store a engine for winter storage or a small engine for summer storage store it with a clean filter and oil. If you start to look at your oil at 500 mile intervals you will see the old CJ starts to look older fairly quick, your modern FI may go 1000 miles and still be clear.

So to complete the thought it was the extra cost of synthetic and not being able to get the longer change interval on a carbed engine. Its a extra cost of synthetic vs how long can it stay in the engine.

So I hope that helps and you can sleep better.
I would also like to know what was the "concern" part.

Regards,
Fred




Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtex1 View Post
What is the best oil to use in a 304 V8?

Shell Rotell T would be the best choice for our old CJ's, valvoline #2 and this was put on post #2 of this thread, then confirmed a few times. If you want more, Lots of posts on this is you search "shell Rotella T" , Flat Tappet Engine Oil, or ZDPH Oil Additive on this search or google would also give you lots of results.
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Unread 01-16-2010, 09:31 AM   #18
h2ojeep
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cottonflat, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtex1 View Post
What is the best oil to use in a 304 V8?
That depends. Being a 304 its been around for a while and unless you have done a recent OH. then run conventional oil. I, like most post above, like Rotella T.

I run synthetic in everything that I hve that is a 4 cycle engine with EXCEPTION of my jeep. I hve an original 304 engine with 100K, a minor rear seal leak. Because synthetic oil has smaller molecules (and they are all the same size, those two factors are what makes it better) then any leak will be worse. Plus the wear of 100k miles done with conventional oil; pretty much make synthetic oil ineffective over conventional oil. If those 100K miles had been done with synthetic, then I would have much less wear than now.

At the point in time that I build a new engine, with fresh bearings, seals, rings, etc, then I will break it in with conventional oil somewhat like what Jeephammer suggest filter changes etc, using probably Rotella t then switch to Mobil One. And still change every 3000 miles.

As I stated earlier, I put synthetic oil in everything (4 cycle), where it is effective. It is a superior lubricant because of the small molecules AND the consistent size of the molecules. I do not try to get the extra mileage that synthetic oil companies advertise. I run it in my later model FI engines BUT still make the scheduled oil changes to keep my warranties and extended warranties in effect ( for example every 5000 mi for my F150). On lawn mower, edger, welder, generator, etc (equipment not used daily) I change once a year. I am willing to pay the extra cost of the synthetic for the superior lubrication and the overall cost is not that much more. That philosophy does not fit with diesel because the diesel contaminates the oil a great deal and the diesel crankcase volume is so much greater. When I had a diesel, I used Rotella T.

Synthetic oil:
In the microscope world of molecules, having molecules that are smaller and consistent size increases surface area and increase surface area of a slippery element will greatly enhance lubrication. To make that point one can get a glass jar and fill it (by volume)half way with dry beans and the other half half with salt (bad examples because beans and salt are not slippery, but you will get the point), and you can see all the gaps where the there is no surface contact on the jar. By contrast you can fill the jar with only salt and see that there is very much more surface contact; almost solid. The mixture of beans and salt represents conventional oil (which has a lot more than just the two sizes), and the salt only is synthetic oil in this analogy. Synthetic oil is conventional oil that has been processed to make the molecules smaller AND all the same size.

All that said, and back to "rrtex1's" original question, with 100K on my AMC 304, I run Rotella T 5w40 in warm months and 10w30 in cool months. I would like to run synthetic but it would be futile.
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Unread 01-16-2010, 09:43 AM   #19
rrtex1
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Thank you H2O, I was wondering about the Rotella.
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Unread 01-16-2010, 03:15 PM   #20
Dngrs1
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mohave Valley,AZ
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Thanks, Fred, that was a very good explanation. I'm sure that others have benefited as well. The only vehicle I run synthetic in is my '06 Saab (warranty demands it) Mobil 1 euro blend. All of my other vehicles have too many miles and are carbed, so it's not cost effective.
Now I can sleep well.
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Unread 01-16-2010, 04:29 PM   #21
h2ojeep
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Location: Cottonflat, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2ojeep View Post
All that said, and back to "rrtex1's" original question, with 100K on my AMC 304, I run Rotella T 5w40 in warm months and 10w30 in cool months. I would like to run synthetic but it would be futile.

Wops, MY BAD......

Reverse those weights, and I was just remembering (obviously not so good) and not looking at weight.

IN THE SUMMER MONTHS it is the heavy weight and make it 10w30 or 10w40 depending on what is available

And the WINTER MONTHS it is light at 5w30 or 5w40 again depending on what is available

So warm weather heavy weight, cool weather light weight. (dugh I feel stupid, ...........often)

Thanks for the complement, (but its not "Fred" but then I didn't say, so make it Dif)
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Unread 01-16-2010, 07:45 PM   #22
Fjguercio
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1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 2,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2ojeep View Post
Thanks for the complement, (but its not "Fred" but then I didn't say, so make it Dif)
Not sure what you are trying to say???

Dngrs.... was thanking me by name, Fred.. so its is correct my name is Fred
..... you are quite welcome, Mr Dngrs
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Unread 01-17-2010, 08:44 AM   #23
h2ojeep
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1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cottonflat, TX
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjguercio View Post
Not sure what you are trying to say???

Dngrs.... was thanking me by name, Fred.. so its is correct my name is Fred
..... you are quite welcome, Mr Dngrs
YES. My apology.
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