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Unread 05-02-2009, 06:54 PM   #1
elks96
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1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CO
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Team Rush Quick Help (Jeep Hammer)

Do I need to replace a stock coil with the TFI? I have a brand new stock coil, hatre to buy somehting else. Also what about the advance springs? I have a new stock distributor going in. I have the larger cap and good plug wires.

What wires attach to the stock coil? I am thinking thatONe has to be red in and one has to be green with a resistor in it? What allows the coil to mount to teh block? Can I get one new someplace?

I would search for this, but time is running out and would rather be wrenching trying to get ready for moab that reading the long pages.

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1985 CJ 7 258 bored/Cammed, MotorCraft Carb, Mallory Ignition, NP435/Dana 300, 4.5 RE Ex, 1.25 JKS Body Lift, Detriot AMC 20 Rear(detroit locker and Warn Hub Conversion), Herculined Tub, Chevy Heater Blower, 34" Swampers, Custom Rear Bumper, more to come....

1972 K5 8" lift, 36" swampers, lockers, custom paint.
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Unread 05-02-2009, 07:12 PM   #2
Mike Romain
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 13,765
I'm not him, will I do?

The stock coil will still give you a spark, just don't open the gap.

The red wire has the resistor wire built into the harness for it, the green wire is the trigger that goes to the ignition module.
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Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 05-02-2009, 07:21 PM   #3
elks96
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1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CO
Posts: 529
OK Mike so lets say the deal is botched up a bit. At one point the old stock set up was hacked out for a super coil. Then after that the super coild was axed and in went an HEI. I kept hating the idea that I might chew up a gear etc. and figured I need to get back to a Stock Distributor. This meant a few wire ends were clipped out and the factory connectors were lost. In this case I still have the red wire, just with out the original connectors. The new coil I have matches all the stock specs, but instead of the factory type wire connector on top it is a bolt style. Can I still use the red to positive and green to to negative set up and be ok? It has been too many years since it was stock for me to even attampt thinking back
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1985 CJ 7 258 bored/Cammed, MotorCraft Carb, Mallory Ignition, NP435/Dana 300, 4.5 RE Ex, 1.25 JKS Body Lift, Detriot AMC 20 Rear(detroit locker and Warn Hub Conversion), Herculined Tub, Chevy Heater Blower, 34" Swampers, Custom Rear Bumper, more to come....

1972 K5 8" lift, 36" swampers, lockers, custom paint.
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Unread 05-02-2009, 07:22 PM   #4
BioTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
I'm not him, will I do?

The stock coil will still give you a spark, just don't open the gap.

The red wire has the resistor wire built into the harness for it, the green wire is the trigger that goes to the ignition module.

Mike,
I was under the impression that opening the Plug gap only put a strain on the ign. module, not the coil. I'm running the e-coil, because it's a V8. For a six, either coil is OK. Did I mis-read?
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'85 CJ7, BDS 4" lift, 1" Body lift, 33x12.5, Shrockworks Sliders, 304 V8 with RV cam., T-176, D300, Dana 30, AMC 20.
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Unread 05-02-2009, 07:35 PM   #5
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BioTex View Post
Mike,
I was under the impression that opening the Plug gap only put a strain on the ign. module, not the coil. I'm running the e-coil, because it's a V8. For a six, either coil is OK. Did I mis-read?
Hotter or higher voltage spark is for a bigger gap as far as I know without harming anything. I run an Accel SuperCoil on mine with a bit larger gap for the last 9 years too...
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 05-02-2009, 07:37 PM   #6
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elks96 View Post
. Can I still use the red to positive and green to to negative set up and be ok? It has been too many years since it was stock for me to even attampt thinking back
It could be fine. One fast test is to put the key in run and see what the red wire has for voltage. If if is lower than the battery voltage, the resistor wire is still there.

If it is missing, you can just get a 1.35 ohm Chrysler ceramic ballast resistor and put it before the coil.
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Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 05-02-2009, 08:50 PM   #7
elks96
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Cool thanks Mike. now I have to convince wife to let me get a voltage tester. I know I should already have one. LOL.
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1985 CJ 7 258 bored/Cammed, MotorCraft Carb, Mallory Ignition, NP435/Dana 300, 4.5 RE Ex, 1.25 JKS Body Lift, Detriot AMC 20 Rear(detroit locker and Warn Hub Conversion), Herculined Tub, Chevy Heater Blower, 34" Swampers, Custom Rear Bumper, more to come....

1972 K5 8" lift, 36" swampers, lockers, custom paint.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 08:54 AM   #8
JeepHammer
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1973 CJ5 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elks96 View Post
Do I need to replace a stock coil with the TFI? I have a brand new stock coil, hatre to buy somehting else. Also what about the advance springs? I have a new stock distributor going in. I have the larger cap and good plug wires.
You would actually be better off with the STOCK CANISTER COIL with the I-6 engine.

(Good Quality) Canister coils actually give you slightly more USABLE SPARK ENERGY with the lower RPMs.

Quote:
What wires attach to the stock coil? I am thinking thatONe has to be red in and one has to be green with a resistor in it? What allows the coil to mount to teh block? Can I get one new someplace?
What happened to your stock wiring?

Quote:
I would search for this, but time is running out and would rather be wrenching trying to get ready for moab that reading the long pages.
If you want quick answers, then fill us in where the stock wiring went...
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Unread 05-03-2009, 09:07 AM   #9
JeepHammer
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OK!...

Lets clear some things up...

1. Opening the plug gap drives up the VOLTAGE output from the ignition coil.
(Has NOTHING to do with the Module or which coil you run.)

2. Using the 'TeamRush' upgrade (Large Cap, Tall Rotor) keeps the higher Spark Energy under control in the distributor cap, so the higher spark energies can't jump around from terminal to terminal or to ground inside the distributor.
(also gets you guys to throw away those 23+ year old spark plug wires an put some fresh ones on!)

3. Canister coil is a better choice for the AMC I-6 engines since the canister coil gives slightly more spark energy at lower RPMs and with less cylinders (I-6 vs. V-8 engines)

4. Factory 'Horse Shoe' coil connectors are available from Auto Zone for $5 to $7...



5. The coil 'Green' wire goes directly back to the module 'Green' wire...
*IF* you have done the 'Nutter Bypass' already.

6. A $6 or $0 'Test Light' can be purchased, or made from a dash light or park/turn light bulb,
And you probe the wires for 'Bright' (full 12 volts) or 'DIM', (less than 12 volts) to find things out...
Such as if the ignition resistor is still in place...

Good for diagnosing problems with the ignition, lights, and other wiring also, so it's not a one time use...
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Unread 05-03-2009, 10:08 AM   #10
elks96
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Posts: 529
Jeep Hammer,

Well I mentioned above that the majority of the stock system is there, I have the green wire and the red wire, but the ends were cut off for a super coil (dumb idea) that ran for a while going to a mallory dist. In the end I chewed up the mallory gear and was not really that impressed with the perfomance, research showed that the distributor I had was meant to function well at high rpms. Like over 4000. So I ditched that and swapped in a GM HEI distributor off the shop floor from my buddies shop. It was free. I set that up and ran it for a little bit, like 3 trips. In that time Il ooked over the threads for the GM HEI and realized that the one I swapped in was probably a junk ebay build. When I pulled it I could see wear on the distbutor gear and the wear was located low on the gear. After posting pics here you and a few others said that I was risking my cam gear. That was over 2 months ago, jeep has not moved since due to installing an NP435. Fast Forward to now. Since that time I have bought a new/reman distributor from NAPA, I have the propper top, 8 mm wires, etc. When I bought the coil canister we did a parts search cause the challenged NAPA people here had no idea which pig tail I was talking about and said it did not exist. We did however manage to find a canister that matched the factory specs to a T and had the bolt style top. I would go back to the stock coil and wires, but do not want to pay for the propper new coil. My build is close to road ready and I have ran out of money since my wife and I are moving soon.

Does this make sense? I will borrow a teser from my buddy today he is comming over. What will happen if I fire the engine with out the resistor? What are my options for installing a resistor?
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1985 CJ 7 258 bored/Cammed, MotorCraft Carb, Mallory Ignition, NP435/Dana 300, 4.5 RE Ex, 1.25 JKS Body Lift, Detriot AMC 20 Rear(detroit locker and Warn Hub Conversion), Herculined Tub, Chevy Heater Blower, 34" Swampers, Custom Rear Bumper, more to come....

1972 K5 8" lift, 36" swampers, lockers, custom paint.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 11:38 AM   #11
elks96
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OK so I got the tester and found out that I have 11.35 at the battery and 11.13 at the red wire. I am assuming that I need a bigger gap. So I am assuming I need a resistor.

Also how exactly does the resistor wire up? Right now the green wire is looped. No end exposed at all, but it does have the black plastic junction. The red has an open end. Do I go red into the resistor then from resistor to + on the coil? On the greens do I end up with 2 green attached to teh -? One withte black plastic junction and one just attached? I am looking through my Manual now to see what I can find.
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1985 CJ 7 258 bored/Cammed, MotorCraft Carb, Mallory Ignition, NP435/Dana 300, 4.5 RE Ex, 1.25 JKS Body Lift, Detriot AMC 20 Rear(detroit locker and Warn Hub Conversion), Herculined Tub, Chevy Heater Blower, 34" Swampers, Custom Rear Bumper, more to come....

1972 K5 8" lift, 36" swampers, lockers, custom paint.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 12:16 PM   #12
Mike Romain
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Posts: 13,765
The resistor just goes on the red line and from the other side to the coil plus.

You will need to find the end of the green line and hook it to the neg. I don't know what plastic junction you mean. The green wire goes to the ignition module.

You should read around this site: http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/ignmods.htm
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Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 05-03-2009, 12:43 PM   #13
elks96
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1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CO
Posts: 529
Here is a pic of the connector I have.... Not sure what it does. I did trace it back and it appears the slightly heavier wire is going to teh Motor Craft box on Drivers side wheel well.

Here is the pic. What do you think it is?

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1985 CJ 7 258 bored/Cammed, MotorCraft Carb, Mallory Ignition, NP435/Dana 300, 4.5 RE Ex, 1.25 JKS Body Lift, Detriot AMC 20 Rear(detroit locker and Warn Hub Conversion), Herculined Tub, Chevy Heater Blower, 34" Swampers, Custom Rear Bumper, more to come....

1972 K5 8" lift, 36" swampers, lockers, custom paint.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 01:55 PM   #14
JeepHammer
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1973 CJ5 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elks96 View Post
OK so I got the tester and found out that I have 11.35 at the battery and 11.13 at the red wire. I am assuming that I need a bigger gap. So I am assuming I need a resistor.
I have to ASSUME...
And I hate to ASSUME anything with you guys because there is ALWAYS something you left out and it makes me WRONG again...
And I have to start over when I finally pry what you forgot to tell out of you...

I have to ASSUME you mean 11.13 VOLTS since you didn't specify what 11.13 you were talking about...

Here is a bit of information for you...
The volt meter won't show resistance on an open circuit.
You will show battery voltage even if there is a resistor in place.

That's why I recommend a TEST LIGHT instead of a volt-Ohm meter when the coil is NOT in the circuit...
The light bulb provides the load to tell you if the resistor is in the circuit or not...

Since your wires are cut off and hanging, I have to ASSUME an open circuit, and the coil WAS NOT hooked up.
-------------------------------------------

Quote:
Also how exactly does the resistor wire up?
The power comes from the fuse block under the dash,
Proceeds through the ignition swtich,
If you have a factory tach, the ignition power goes through the tach before heading out to the engine bay.

Once in the engine bay, the power wire splits off into three wires at what is called a 'SPLICE Block'...
One wire delivers a full 12 volts to the ignition module,
One wire delivers current to excite the alternator so it charges right away,
And a third leg of the splice is the resistor wire that proceeds to the ignition coil positive terminal.
---------------------------------------------

Quote:
Right now the green wire is looped. No end exposed at all, but it does have the black plastic junction.
You mean the green coil wire isn't stubbed off somewhere near the stock coil mounting location?
If you are not sure WHICH green wire is the coil 'Negative' line,
Then you can run a 14 gauge wire from the coil negative terminal to the module 'Green' wire if you have the factory DuraSpark module still in place,
OR,
You can run it to an HEI 'C' terminal.
------------------------------------------------

Quote:
The red has an open end.
Do I go red into the resistor then from resistor to + on the coil?
By 'Open End', I guess you mean a stripped end on the wire?

The 'Red' wire will connect directly to the coil POSITIVE terminal, no matter what coil you use...
If no one bothered to put in a larger than factory wire, they never bothered to take out the resistor,
So I'm 90% sure the resistor is still there.
------------------------------------------------

Quote:
On the greens do I end up with 2 green attached to teh -? One withte black plastic junction and one just attached? I am looking through my Manual now to see what I can find.
I have NO IDEA what you are talking about...
If the 'Green Wire' is connected to something,
You many not have the CORRECT 'GREEN' WIRE!

That's why I told you if there was any doubt,
Run a fresh 'Green', 14 ga. wire back to the module and hook it up.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 02:54 PM   #15
Mike Romain
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Posts: 13,765
I will agree with Jeephammer about just running a new green when in doubt, but you only found one end of it, where is the other end?

To see for sure if you still have the resister wire, just follow the red along a bit. It will come to a crimp connection with a fat soft orange or red wire and a wire going to the starter solenoid. This fat soft wire is the resistor.
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Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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