Team Rush ??? Nuttered??? - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > Team Rush ??? Nuttered???

Ruffstuff Axle Simple Swap Kit!ROCK BOTTOM prices on LIFT KITS at Rockridge4wd!! WANT TO Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed Line

Reply
Unread 02-13-2008, 10:20 AM   #31
Mike Romain
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 13,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by tippmann243 View Post
can anyone comment on the extra ground strap/wire i have read a little about through the search.

when searching for team rush. you some times get a mention of adding an addition ground to the system but no one goes into detail about it.

can some one shed some light on the situtaion.

thanks
-mark
The ignition module grounds through the distributor hold down foot. This can get a ratty connection causing misses. Folks here recommend you take the black wire going to the distributor and splice a dedicated ground into it.

I just parked my CJ7 because I snapped my frame so I plan on cleaning up some wiring (dash is a rats nest waiting for the right time to clean it up) and I figure I will add that dedicated ground just because. I have a 'glass body with dedicated grounds for everything else and I mistakenly thought the dedicated ground I ran to the ignition module's case would do.. Some Jeep shop and their great advice eh...

__________________
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
Mike Romain is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-13-2008, 10:28 AM   #32
tippmann243
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: st louis
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
The ignition module grounds through the distributor hold down foot. This can get a ratty connection causing misses. Folks here recommend you take the black wire going to the distributor and splice a dedicated ground into it.

I just parked my CJ7 because I snapped my frame so I plan on cleaning up some wiring (dash is a rats nest waiting for the right time to clean it up) and I figure I will add that dedicated ground just because. I have a 'glass body with dedicated grounds for everything else and I mistakenly thought the dedicated ground I ran to the ignition module's case would do.. Some Jeep shop and their great advice eh...
ok that seems logical. when i do the team rush mods ill be sure to do that.

thanks for all the help so far guys this is a great forum for a jeep noob like myself.
__________________
89 blazer, L31/t56 28mpg.
blazer video, http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...4091507-02.flv
1990 jeep, 4.2, 5speed.
tippmann243 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-13-2008, 12:27 PM   #33
John Strenk
Moderator
 
John Strenk's Avatar
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shalersville Ohio
Posts: 13,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
The unit on the fender is the electronic ignition module, pull that and you go nowhere fast.

Look beside the battery for a large oval grommet in the firewall, the computer is behind there.

Nope. In 82 they actually did mount the computer on the fender and the ICM was still munted below the washer fill bottle. Interesting to note that the computer ONLY controlled the mixture and not the ignition timing in 82.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...=1982+computer
I'll see if I can get the picture again.


Last edited by John Strenk; 02-13-2008 at 12:40 PM..
John Strenk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-13-2008, 01:22 PM   #34
Mike Romain
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Off the Grid in Chester Grant, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 13,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
Nope. In 82 they actually did mount the computer on the fender and the ICM was still munted below the washer fill bottle. Interesting to note that the computer ONLY controlled the mixture and not the ignition timing in 82.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...=1982+computer
I'll see if I can get the picture again.
Interesting, so 82 was an odd one all around then. Good to know.
__________________
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
Mike Romain is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-13-2008, 05:03 PM   #35
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,703
I'm back for a minute or two...
Had some bad weather here, lightening strike to the house, then a week later, 70 mph winds took the shingles off the house that were in the area of the lightening strike...
Now we have an ice storm while I'm trying to get someone to fix the mess.

Water in the wiring and office/computer room is always a mess!

Throw in a good dose of the Flu in there for good measure and you have my last two or three weeks...
---------------

Parts from the SCREW DOWN CAP ADAPTER...
'81 Fords used a screw down cap adapter, like the Jeep caps are screw down type.

82 Fords used a mixture of screws and clips, by '83 everything was clip down type and they won't work.

'81 Ford F-150 Pickup with 300 CID I-6 engine for the cap adapter, cap & rotor.

Actually,
The caps and rotors didn't change until the (Piece of crap) TFI distributor came out, just the adapter did, but it's just easier to tell people to get ALL the parts from a '81.

Now, the plug gap is another issue...
I usually open the plug gap up to about 0.045" when I use the upgraded cap and rotor...
That will drive up firing voltages to about 35,000 volts without robbing your spark energy of too much Amperage or Duration.

If you follow the 'More gap is better!' boys, you are going to loose spark Amperage and Duration very quickly past about 0.045" unless you are using a CDI module!
---------------------------

As for using stock, small cap hardware...
You have to keep the plug gaps pretty small to keep the voltage from rising to the point of arcing all over the place inside the cap.
To be really frank about it, 0.032" is too much for the small caps and rotors...

Lots of cross fires where the cap terminals are too close together,
Lots of cross fires, multi fires, and ground fires where the cap isn't vented and the ionized air can't escape,
Lots of ground fires because the rotor is too short and allows the high voltage to jump to the distributor body instead of the spark plug terminal it was intended for...

Using a larger cap and rotor puts space, just plain old fashioned real estate between the terminals.
Always a good thing no matter who tells you differently...

Using the cap adapter raises the rotor conductor up off the distributor shaft farther, putting more of that precious real estate between the rotor conductor and the shaft/housing and other grounds.

The Ford style rotor is designed to help stir up the ionized air in the distributor cap so concentrations of ion trails can't be maintained for long distances...

Using the Ford type cap gives you a vent in the cap to get rid of things like Ozone and ionized air buildup...
No arc can take place until the distance between the two terminals is ionized.
Once the entire inside of the cap is ionized, the spark can jump to anywhere in the cap that has the thickest ion trail...

Venting excess ionized air will dramatically reduce the amount (concentration) of ionized air in the cap.

You can run anything you want to run for cap, rotor, distributor, coil or what ever...
I'm just trying to give you the basic information necessary for an INFORMED decision.
JeepHammer is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-19-2008, 07:46 PM   #36
tippmann243
Registered User
1990 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: st louis
Posts: 472
thanks guys i did this mod to my 90 yj and it runs like its brand new.

gas milage when from 14-15 to about 20ish. dunno if this was a fluke or not. i need to drive more and calcualte it a few more times.

it just runs and drives so much smoother then before.

once again this is a great site for noobs like me. most of my free time is spent searching the forums and absorbing the wealth of knowledge

-mark
__________________
89 blazer, L31/t56 28mpg.
blazer video, http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...4091507-02.flv
1990 jeep, 4.2, 5speed.
tippmann243 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-19-2008, 09:18 PM   #37
SuB8HaVeN
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 2,287
My timing/spark seems to be a little messed up, so I'm going to attempt this upgrade tomorrow. I'm going to run by Auto Zone and pick up the cap, adapter, and rotor for a 1981 F-150 with the 300 I6, but what model/year should I use for the plug wires? I know you need the newer 4.0L I6 Jeep wires, but should I get them for a Wrangler/Cherokee/Grand Cherokee, and which year do you think? I'm just not sure what years there were changes possibly.
__________________
1986 Jeep CJ7 4.2L I6 T176 (restoration in progress)
1961 Willys 4x4 Wagon L-226 I6 T90 (restoration also in progress)
SuB8HaVeN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-19-2008, 09:32 PM   #38
HighCountry
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North East Texas, Texas
Posts: 998
The last time I had reliable info, Zone did not sell any decent Plug Wires. I am not even certain that they have a source for quality Caps and Rotors, make sure the cap has brass terminals. The only wires I can personally recommend are Belden from Napa or Standard from OReilly's. Tell them the application is the 81 Ford with a 300 six or a 95 Jeep (any model) with a 4.0, either will work. The Jeep wires require the modern coil in order to connect, I am not sure about the 81 Ford though...

Bruce
HighCountry is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-03-2008, 02:36 PM   #39
twmattox
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,293
I have had good luck with A'Zone BOSCH wires. I know that many may not agree, but no issues here (and I have used them for nearly 15 years). The nice thing is that they are lifetime warranty. Every few years, I just pop them all off and get a new set.
twmattox is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-03-2010, 07:48 AM   #40
digineer
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 1
Parts List?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighCountry View Post
Basically, the "team rush" thing is this. Your jeep has the same ignition that was installed on Fords of those years. Ford upgraded their Distributor Cap and Rotor in order to use an Ignition Coil with a higher voltage spark. All you need to do is buy an Adapter/Spacer, Cap and Rotor for an early 80's Ford pickup truck with the 300cid 6 cylinder and they will snap right onto your Jeep distributor. Then you will need a set of plug wires from a later model Jeep 4.0 6 cylinder that has the reversed terminals on the cap like the Ford cap you just installed. You can put this all together first and then install your choice of Ignition Coil at a later date. Personally, my CJ runs perfectly well by just using the best quality original type ignition parts supplemented with an ACCEL Part # 8140HV 'high vibration' Super Stock Coil. I like it because it fits in my stock coil mount bracket!

If you would care to have them, I can supply you with the part numbers for the best quality items that you can get at a NAPA store. I have online access to their parts catalogs and served time there doing parts.

The Nutter modification is better explained by another poster here, a Mike Romain. I will let you wait for his help there...

Bruce
Can I get the Napa list of parts from you? Thanks in advance.
digineer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-11-2010, 09:46 AM   #41
nitor
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Morrow, OH
Posts: 52
Digineer - this thread has the part numbers. But this is what the numbers from NAPA:

Adaptor – FA136
Cap – FA139
Rotor – FA159
Coil – IC24
Ignition Coil Connector – ICC1
Plug wires – 7000444

Hope this helps.
I haven't done this mod/upgrade yet, but I plan on it soon.
__________________
Thanks,

Jim

1985 CJ7
nitor is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-11-2010, 12:49 PM   #42
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,703
The 'TeamRush' upgrade is based on simple electrical principals...

1. The distance between terminals determins how much VOLTAGE it takes to ionize the gap between terminals.
The larger the gap between terminals,
The higher voltage it takes for the gap to ionize, and if it's large enough for any given voltage, the gap WILL NOT ionize and the spark won't jump.

Wider spaced caps means you can SAFELY drive up the firing voltages without having the spark energy jump between terminals.

Venting the cap to keep ionized air from building up will help stop the spark energy from jumping to the wrong terminal or to 'Ground' inside the cap.

Once the terminals are separated with a larger cap,
And you use the taller rotor to keep the spark energy from jumping to 'Ground' inside the distributor,

2. PLUG GAP DETERMINES FIRING VOLTAGES.

Then you can increase the spark energy to take advantage of the new situation.

By opening up the plug gap slightly, you can drive up the firing voltages somewhat since it will take higher discharge voltage to ionize the plug gap.

This can make the difference between a 20,000 to 25,000 volt discharge to a 35,000 volt discharge simply by opening up the plug gap from 0.032" to 0.045"

The distributor cap/rotor high voltage connections are further spaced apart,
BUT...
You CAN accumulate enough ionization in the cap for the spark energy to jump ANYWHERE if you open the plug gap up too far, driving the firing voltages up WILDLY...

So if you are doing this, stick with about 0.045" so you don't drive firing voltages up further than the spacing in the cap can support.

Venting the cap helps a lot.
I have hooked the cap vent up to engine vacuum so fresh air is drawn in the bottom of the cap and distributor (There are leaks and drains in the distributor body, and they work well for controlled air flow through the distributor)
But you will also suck in moisture when driving around in rain or sloshing through a big mud hole...

A second way to do things is to BLOW COMPRESSED AIR through the cap from a dry source.
I use a compressor connected to the cap vent to blow compressed air through the distributor to remove the ionized air.

This also makes a 'Positive Pressure' inside the distributor,
So the distributor simply blows bubbles under water instead of drowning out the distributor.

Not everyone sloshes through water all the time, and not everyone has a compressor on board, so the vacuum idea will evacuate the ionized air out of the cap when the engine is running, and that will stop a lot of the potential for crossfire and ground fires.

3. I can't stress enough the use of really good PLUG WIRES!
A really good set will cost you about $60, but that's a 10 year investment so the price is negligible...

Good plug wires will NOT leak, they will NOT create a huge induction field around themselves, and they will keep your connections/terminals insulated and dry.

I only use MSD plug wires FOR A REASON,
There simply isn't any better plug wire on the market right now that I know of.

4. '78-'90 You All Have Jeep/MOTORCRAFT Distributors.
Ford used a Large Cap & Tall Rotor with the electronic ignitions to handle the increased spark energy the electronic ignitions produce.

Jeep elected to use the SHORT rotor which allows the spark energy to jump to the distributor body/shaft and ground before it gets to the plugs.

Jeep elected to use a short/small diameter distributor cap the plug terminals are WAY too close in to control the spark energy the electronic ignition puts out.

Therefore, Jeep had to keep the plug gaps at about the same you would find in breaker point ignitions,
And your ignition coils are capable of MUCH MORE output than they are actually giving with a plug gap of 0.032"...

The gap had to be kept small to keep ALL of the spark energy from grounding someplace in the distributor it's not supposed to.

By simply going to the larger cap/rotor that Ford used with it's electronic ignition,
You separate the rotor from 'Ground',
And you separate terminals from each other with the wider cap.

Once you do this, you can open up the plug gap SAFELY to about the same as Ford used with it's Motorcraft ignition,
Which is about 0.045"
This will drive the output voltage of the factory ignition coil up to about 30,000 to 35,000 volts and give you a MUCH more solid spark at the plugs.

IF you open up more than about 0.045" gap,
Then you run the risk of overworking the factory ignition coil and/or having the spark energy bouncing around in the distributor again...

5. The factory style canister coil isn't capable of putting out much more than 35,000 to 40,000 volts without robbing your spark energy of both Duration Of Spark
(Time the spark stays in the plug gap, the longer the better),
And you run the risk of robbing too much Amperage
(Amperage is the 'Heat' of the spark)
And you will get a fast, 'cold' spark that doesn't light the cylinder correctly.

You will also have issues with 'Coil Saturation',
The time the coil takes to build a Magnetic Field.

Coil Saturation times are fixed, and depend on the coil design and how rapid you want that coil to saturate/discharge.

If you switch to an 'E-core' style coil, either GM or Ford, the 'Magnetic Saturation' times drop to about 1/3 of the canister coils.
E-core coils saturate MUCH FASTER than canister coils.

E-core coils DO NOT play well with the factory Jeep/Ford DuraSpark modules we can get now.
The old factory modules used a different type of switching transistor that tolerated the faster saturating coils better,
But the cheap import type modules we get now don't handle the E-core coils very well...

If you decide to switch to an E-core coil,
(And it's REALLY not necessary with an I-6 engine since they have less cylinders and operate at lower RPM than V-8 engines do)

Consider switching your ignition module over to an HEI style module (Either 'Hybrid HEI', or 'Stealth HEI') since they are designed to get along with the E-core style modules.

6. I didn't 'Invent' anything,
I simply developed a plan, part numbers, ect. for switching your Motorcraft distributors over to the larger/taller distributor caps with better terminals,
And I'm here to explain what happens when your ignition triggers and fires.

The 'Large Cap/Tall Rotor/Better Plug Wires' used in the 'TeamRush' upgrade is an Upgrade in every way.
There are no 'Proprietary' parts used, they are all stock parts right off the shelf in any parts store so you don't have to buy specialty parts and you are never stuck waiting for some aftermarket company to send you replacements.

The parts are cheap, plentiful, and easy to change out.
Anyone that can put a set of plug wires on without screwing it up can do it at home in about 30 Minutes.

You DO NOT have to change timing,
You DO NOT have to change anything in the distributor body,
You DO NOT have to re-time the engine (which should be done at any 'Tune Up'),

These are all 'Tune Up' parts which you have to buy at intervals anyway, so the net cost is $0 since you have to replace the parts from time to time anyway...

------------------------------------------------

As for the 'John Nutter Bypass'...
I don't usually recommend it unless your current computer isn't working, or you can't find the replacment parts to make it work.

Most people doing the 'Nutter Bypass' do NOT consider blocking a bunch of vacuum lines correctly,
The do NOT consider setting the idle bypass air in the carb and re tuning the carb,
They do NOT consider there are at least 3 versions of distributors/computers used and there are some very subtle differences, but they must be addressed if you do the bypass...

And as far as I know, John Strenk and Mike Romain are the only two that have the 'Nutter Bypass' figured out 'Correctly'...
JeepHammer is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-11-2010, 11:19 PM   #43
pleontks
Registered User
1976 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Whetstone, Az
Posts: 1,130
so stoked. Going to pick n pull tomorrow after the dentist! Got a 74 Gremlin with the 258 that's getting it and the 360 in the j10.
pleontks is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-04-2011, 08:53 AM   #44
bigdee2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 76
Part numbers for a 1978 CJ-7 304 V-8

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighCountry View Post
kharmajavah, I sent you a PM with the part info. This time I wrote down the numbers and filed them!

Bruce
Bruce/High Country - Can you send me the part numbers for a Team Rush upgrade on the 1978 304 V-8? Thanks. DErek
bigdee2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-04-2011, 08:56 AM   #45
Falcon_CMH
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdee2 View Post
Bruce/High Country - Can you send me the part numbers for a Team Rush upgrade on the 1978 304 V-8? Thanks. DErek
How about posting them out here please for everyone?
__________________
Bought a 1980 CJ-7 that I am rebuilding ground up: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/my...thread-1264945
Given 6 hours to chop down a cherry tree a famous person once said I would sharpen my axe for 5 hours.
Falcon_CMH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.