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Unread 12-09-2014, 01:38 PM   #1
CrashOdle
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T19 Transmission into my CJ7

Well 1st post here so be gentle. I have read here and on other sites ad nauseam on T18/9 adaptions to a CJ7. I recently bought a CJ basket case that came with a T18 transmission with the Granny 1st, and what appears to be a Dana 300 from a Scout, which as far as I can tell is really Dana 20. These all mate together by way of an OEM looking ~1" adapter plate, and a bell housing from what appears to be from a 258/T176 setup. It has the bosses for the T18 pattern that need to be drilled. Non of these parts were original to the jeep. So here is my issue:

The jeep will be streeted as much or more than it will be offroaded, and when off roaded, it will be mild trails and tooling around the desert. Not a crawler at all, although I can appreciate the 6.32:1 1st gear. I want to improve the drive-ability of the jeep for the wife and kids, but keep the ruggedness of the T18/Dana 20. Enter the T19 and its' syndo'd 1st and rev. I just came across a guy that has one out of a mid 80's ford 4wd mated to a BW1345 TC. I have read plenty on ford 2wd and even more on from IH T19's being good candidates, but little on a ford 4wd version. Will the Dana 20 mate to the T19 using the Adapter plate I have? Will the output shaft be to long or splined incorrectly? While the forums, Novak, etc talk extensively about T18's & 2wd Ford T19 and adapter plates, I'm unclear on later model Ford 4wd transmissions adaptability. Thank you in advance for your input.

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Unread 12-09-2014, 02:26 PM   #2
CSP
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Scout Dana 300 is not a Dana 20. It's a true Dana 300 with the same input that the Dana 20 has, but it ends there.

My suggestion is to call Novak and talk to Eric. I don't know first hand the compatibility of the tailhousing/output shaft of the T18 you have with the T19. I suspect it's swappable, but I'm not 100% on that. The fact that the Ford T18s use the same adapter/output shaft whether 2wd or 4wd is what leads me to believe that the same would be true for the 2wd/4wd Ford T19. Still no first had experience with that, so I'll stick with it being an educated guess.
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Unread 12-09-2014, 02:49 PM   #3
CrashOdle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
Scout Dana 300 is not a Dana 20. It's a true Dana 300 with the same input that the Dana 20 has, but it ends there.
Thanks for the quick reply. I was pretty confused by the TC case for a bit, and it took me a good while to figure it out, but this helped....

http://www.advanceadapters.com/tech-...na-300-tc-146/

It has the case of a Dana 20, but the linkage of a 300-ish. but it make sense when you read this...

The Scout 300 made its’ debut and sad finale in 1980. I.H. was enthralled in a lengthy and nasty labor strike in 1980 which limited production to only 30,000 Scout II vehicles. Politics of the strike aside, The Scout II would never see production again and sadly the company would not survive. This limited production of the Scout 300 featured the new low 2.62, but unlike Jeep, IH kept their same transmissions as were used on the Dana 20. They therefore also kept the same mating system which utilized the “Texas bolt Pattern” and transmission output shaft configuration. The Scout 300 can best be described as a hybrid between a Scout/Jeep Dana 20 and a Jeep Dana 300, but it was essentially a Dana 20 with a 2.62 ratio. This is what makes this transfer case so sought after; the Dana 20 and the Scout 300 are interchangeable.

...or another solution I would entertain, if it is at all possible is to outfit my T18 with a 1st gear synchro. Can it be done?
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Unread 12-09-2014, 03:34 PM   #4
hutch1200
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BUY that T-19 ASAP! Then do whatever is needed to make it fit. Keep in mind, the 19 is the last tranny you will ever buy. They are bullet proof, fairly smooth and even if you never use it you could sell it for a profit. Not that I would approve of "gouging", but a few bucks would be fine.
I have a hi-HP 360 & T-18 that has a useless 1st gear on the street. I'd trade my 18 for a 19 in a heartbeat. Because my cam is too big, the old T-150 wouldn't cut it 4wd. I searched forever for a 19. These boxes seem to be a T-150 w/a granny.
Good luck, & let us know how you make out.
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Unread 12-09-2014, 04:26 PM   #5
Matt1981CJ7
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I'm with Hutch. Snag the T19 and make it work.

Do you know what 1st gear ratio it has? They came in 4, 5, and 6:1. I have the 5:1 first. With 2.73 gears, I use 1st gear a lot in my rig.

There is a minor mod to the shifter linkage of the Jeep 300 that is necessary to mate it to a T19, but it's not difficult. I don't know if the same would apply to a Scout 300.

And as CSP said, Novak is probably your best bet to work out the details.

Matt
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Unread 12-09-2014, 04:41 PM   #6
CrashOdle
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Matt, what size tires do you run? I'm looking to be around the same spot, 3.xx for gears on 33's, so I have a useable 1st, and I'm not winding it out down the hi way.
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Unread 12-09-2014, 04:53 PM   #7
Partsmke
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The T19 Ford that is 4 wheel drive is the same case as the 2 wheel drive, both use the same after market adapter for either Jeep model 20 or Scout Model 300 transfer cases unless you have a model 20 with a 14 spline drive gear (found in T14 equipped CJ5'S and 6's). I'm assuming you have a large hole model 20 and with the Scout looking shifter, it is a Scout 20. Your Jeep I6 and T176 require a different clutch disc 10.5" by 1 1/16" spline along with a special pilot bushing that measure 1.818" OD that fits the .750 OD Ford input shaft, the bell housing you have will fit the Ford T19 without any modification. Both Advance Adaptors and Novak sell the T19 to Model 20 adaptor, the kit should come with the correct pilot bushing. Both Ford and Jeep use the same throw-out bearing. Use a good after market transmission mount that has two bushings set apart to stop transmission roll, the stock Jeep mount is not really up to the task. If you find at a later date you would like to have the 6.32 gear set, you can install Scout T19 low gears in the Ford case by using a T18 17 tooth input gear. Ford only had 2 ratios, the 23 tooth input is 4 to 1, the 5 to 1 I'm not sure the tooth count I seem to remember it was 21, Ford didn't use the 17 tooth in a T19.
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Unread 12-09-2014, 04:54 PM   #8
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashOdle View Post
Matt, what size tires do you run? I'm looking to be around the same spot, 3.xx for gears on 33's, so I have a useable 1st, and I'm not winding it out down the hi way.
I run 32"s with my 2;73 gears. I use my first gear when pulling away from every stop. I can run it up to 20 mph in first without winding it too tight. The synchronized 1st and reverse gears are key.

The throw of the T19 also seems shorter/tighter to me, compared to the T18.

I'm very happy I chose the T19 for my rig.

Matt
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Unread 12-09-2014, 05:19 PM   #9
CrashOdle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partsmke View Post
The T19 Ford that is 4 wheel drive is the same case as the 2 wheel drive, both use the same after market adapter for either Jeep model 20 or Scout Model 300 transfer cases unless you have a model 20 with a 14 spline drive gear (found in T14 equipped CJ5'S and 6's). I'm assuming you have a large hole model 20 and with the Scout looking shifter, it is a Scout 20.

That is correct, it's a d20 case with a 300, or scout looking shift linkage

Your Jeep I6 and T176 require a different clutch disc 10.5" by 1 1/16" spline along with a special pilot bushing that measure 1.818" OD that fits the .750 OD Ford input shaft, the bell housing you have will fit the Ford T19 without any modification. Both Advance Adaptors and Novak sell the T19 to Model 20 adaptor, the kit should come with the correct pilot bushing.

Do you know if I can use the adapter plate currently mated to the T18 for the Dana 20? Is it likely the same T18 to T19? I haven't seen the output shaft (mainshaft) as its still mated to the BW1345 TC, but I suspect its much longer. I assume I'll need to replace that shaft to one that mimics the my T18 output shaft and install a new bull gear. I'm in the market for a new flywheel and the proper clutch, pressure plate and T/O bearing. Is that something you carry?

Both Ford and Jeep use the same throw-out bearing. Use a good after market transmission mount that has two bushings set apart to stop transmission roll, the stock Jeep mount is not really up to the task. If you find at a later date you would like to have the 6.32 gear set, you can install Scout T19 low gears in the Ford case by using a T18 17 tooth input gear. Ford only had 2 ratios, the 23 tooth input is 4 to 1, the 5 to 1 I'm not sure the tooth count I seem to remember it was 21, Ford didn't use the 17 tooth in a T19.

That's good information, I'd like to be at 5:1
Thanks Mike. I've been lurking on your website too...I'll be in touch.
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Unread 12-09-2014, 06:39 PM   #10
hutch1200
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Parts Mike is where I got the whole deal. I'm using a 2wd Ford & he hooked me up w/the special pilot bushing, Dana 20 adapter, LUK clutch etc...One stop shopping, knowledgeable staff, quick shipping and fair prices. And I'm no way affiliated w/these guys. And I think THEY prefer it this way!
I'm using 4.10s & 35.4" BFG A/T's. 1st gear MIGHT get me thru an intersection w/o over-revving. But I can do it w/the front wheels showing daylight!
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Last edited by hutch1200; 12-09-2014 at 07:13 PM..
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Unread 12-09-2014, 06:44 PM   #11
CrashOdle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutch1200 View Post
Parts Mike is where I got the whole deal. I'm using a 2wd Ford & he hooked me up w/the special pilot bushing, Dana 20 adapter, LUK clutch etc...One stop shopping, knowledgeable staff, quick shipping and fair prices. And I'm no way affiliated w/these guys.
That's what I gather. Been lurking on these boards for awhile researching my build, and I see his name everywhere. Seems like one of the go-to guys. Thanks for your input.
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Unread 12-09-2014, 10:41 PM   #12
CrashOdle
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Well thanks for the nudge...I picked up that T19 tonight. Haven't popped the top, but it goes through the gears and it has the 5:1 1st, which is where I think I want to be. Guess I gotta sell my T18 to finance the ~700 for a Novak conversion and rebuild....



Thanks again for all the info!
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Unread 12-09-2014, 11:11 PM   #13
hutch1200
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Crash, you have officially closed the door on ALL future trans issues. You'll love it. Routine fluids and you'll be set for life.
If you can, have Novak re-plumb the temperature sensitive breather on the side. The purpose is the same as your axle breather, only MOST stock 18 & 19's have a thermostat type unit on the side. It will pop open when it is hottest, like gooey mud and may hang open for a stream crossing. Just something to mention to Novak before you ship it off. I'm not even sure all units have this device, but mine came from Novak, & I bought it barely used, w/this mod already performed. By whom I do not know, but the seller gave me this info. FWIW!
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Unread 12-10-2014, 01:58 PM   #14
CSP
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It is possible to convert the T19 to have the T18 low gear. The guy that Matt1981CJ7 got his T19 from has the recipe for it. I didn't think it could be done until a friend of mine showed me his and who told him how to do it. He told me, but it's been at least ten years since then so I don't recall what needs to be done any longer.

That Dana 300 lends itself well to twin sticking also. The shifter tower used on it readily accepts Jeep Dana 18 twin shifters.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 04:19 PM   #15
Dadamsnv
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I wish wish wish I could find a scout d300. I've been looking for months to no avail.

You can tell if it's a 300 by the aluminum rear output housing and the aluminum front output/shifter housing. The 20's have iron output housings.

A short, sad story: I bought my jeep with a t18 d300 combo. The PO had all the paperwork proving the purchase of a ford t18, the adapter kit to the scout d300/d20, and the scout d300. But, as it turns out, it was a scout d20 all along
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