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Unread 02-16-2013, 12:09 PM   #1
jfallon1
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T176 tranny problems

So ever since I bought my cj first gear never worked properly. I can put it in first gear but has to be held in place. And even when held in place as the rpms get higher, it still kicks itself out while being held. I pulled tranny and took the shifter cover off and all the gears look good. The only gear that doesn't is the reverse idler but even it has no major chips or chunks. Just normal wear. Can that gear cause first gear to not work properly? No other gears or synchros are worn. Could it have something to do with the shifter? Any ideas would be appreciated.

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Unread 02-16-2013, 12:44 PM   #2
John Strenk
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Nothing probably nothing to do at all with the gears but the syncros for the gears.

It's the brass ring between the gears.

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Unread 02-16-2013, 02:59 PM   #3
jfallon1
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How do I tell if they are bad? All have good teeth and mesh well. No chips in the teeth or chunks gone
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Unread 02-16-2013, 04:52 PM   #4
John Strenk
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I'll have to check when I get home but it almost looks like the dog gear (?) Is too close to the syncro. That us a sign that the cone is worn out.

The cone is what speeds the gear up to the same speed as the gear that's driving it.

. That happens if the PO liked to drive with his hand on the shifter. Or so I'm told.

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Unread 02-16-2013, 04:57 PM   #5
Mean Max
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Need pics of the shift forks.

Typically, on transmissions with the brass style shift forks, kicking out of gear is caused by heavily worn shift forks that fail to fully engage the hub sleeve. I just rebuilt a T176 last week with the same issues.

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No one here knows what they are talking about. You should try Pirate 4x4 they will be happy to help you.

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Unread 02-16-2013, 08:08 PM   #6
jfallon1
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Looked at them all and they look good. Tell me what yaw think. Not real sure what to look for. The shifting was sloppy. They wasn't a tightness to it like other stick shifts. Not real sure how other cj's shift though. All the help is appreciated
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Unread 02-16-2013, 08:10 PM   #7
jfallon1
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Another
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Unread 02-16-2013, 08:49 PM   #8
80cj
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Check for end play in the gears and shafts. The FSM gives acceptable end play tolerances. The brass rings only act as braking devices. Also, look at your shifter and make sure the shift rails are not sloppy in the cover and also that the forks are not loose on the rails.
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Unread 02-17-2013, 05:33 AM   #9
Mean Max
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Check the grooves on the sides of the shifter cane where it sits in the shift tower, and the condition of the guide pins.

These pics are of an AX-15 shifter & tower, but the concept is the same.






If the grooves are worn away, weld some new material onto the shifter & then grind it into shape.

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Unread 02-17-2013, 10:49 AM   #10
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While looking at your pic, I happened to notice that your output shaft splines appear to be a bit worn. You might take a look at them.

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Unread 02-17-2013, 07:22 PM   #11
jfallon1
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Gonna try my hand at rebuilding it. What tools do yaw suggest getting? Snap ring pliers and a puller? Some say use a wooden dowel, is it necessary?
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Unread 02-17-2013, 07:41 PM   #12
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I use a copper rod a lot in place of the dowel. Won't splinter and still soft enough not to hurt things.
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Unread 02-17-2013, 08:00 PM   #13
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80cj
Check for end play in the gears and shafts. The FSM gives acceptable end play tolerances. The brass rings only act as braking devices. Also, look at your shifter and make sure the shift rails are not sloppy in the cover and also that the forks are not loose on the rails.
If you think they are only braking devises, your missing half of the job they do

But yes, check the endplay of the gears.

Last time I had a tranny that I had to hold it in gear was because the mechanic forgot to put oil in the tranny when he rebuilt the tranny. Time before that was a split case.
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Unread 02-17-2013, 08:06 PM   #14
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfallon1
Gonna try my hand at rebuilding it. What tools do yaw suggest getting? Snap ring pliers and a puller? Some say use a wooden dowel, is it necessary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lavern23
I use a copper rod a lot in place of the dowel. Won't splinter and still soft enough not to hurt things.
Depends, are you going to use the dowel as a dummy rod to hold the bearings in place or use it a punch to hammer things out?

I found that some conduit and plastic pipe are the exact diameter to use as an arbor (dummy) shaft.




Good catch on those output splines. Check the splines in the D300 also

What's the end play on the clutch (input) shaft.?
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Unread 02-17-2013, 08:09 PM   #15
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Max
Check the grooves on the sides of the shifter cane where it sits in the shift tower, and the condition of the guide pins.

These pics are of an AX-15 shifter & tower, but the concept is the same.

If the grooves are worn away, weld some new material onto the shifter & then grind it into shape.

Max
Good thought but I don't think you can weld on new material. You just have to get new shift rods. Unless you mean the end of the shifter.
Usually the end of the shifter is what wears first.
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