T176 hard to get into 2nd gear. - Page 5 - JeepForum.com
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post #61 of 86 Old 11-23-2013, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
agear
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i see


1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #62 of 86 Old 11-25-2013, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by agear View Post
Hey bob, I bought a new mainshaft and 1st gear(2nd gear was on backorder)and snapings. I fitted my old 1st/2nd synchronizer assembly,1st gear, and snap ring on the shaft. I get the same amount of movement there as my first gear in my t176 in my jeep has. So I'm thinking there's a problem with my new 1st/2nd synchronizer assembly I put in last time I had the tranny out last year.......what do you think
Oh man, that's expensive. Do you have the thrust washer that goes between 1st gear and the rear main bearing? also there is a tabbed thrust washer that goes between 2nd and 3rd gears, I believe. I have the T-176 section of the FSM saved in PDF format. Did I ever send it to you? If you want it, PM me your email address.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. My mom passed away recently so we have been quite busy.
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post #63 of 86 Old 11-25-2013, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
agear
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No problem. God bless and sorry for your loss. No worries about the cost I can return them. I never got 2nd gear so I can't check that but I do have the thrust washer that goes between 1st and the rear main bearing. That thrust washer bumps up against the shoulder on the mainshaft. So I measured movement of 1st gear with the synchronizer assembly all the way up against the snap ring-from the synchronizer assembly to the end of the shoulder ,which is where the thrust washer goes. I do have the factory service manual pdf. In the picture below the snap ring the red arrow is pointing to -actually goes in front the 1st/2nd synchronizer assembly between that and 2nd gear , even though in the picture it's exploded behind the 1st/2nd synchronizer assembly , right ? Because if I'm not mistaken ,sometimes the order of the parts in exploded diagrams is not how the parts are when they are assembled.
In the picture there are only 2 snaprings shown in that area.
The 3rd photo shows rear side of the mainshaft behind the 1st/2nd synch. assemb.
Attached Thumbnails
mainshaft (1).jpg   mainshaft (2).jpg   mainshaft5.jpg   T176ExplodedView.gif  

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #64 of 86 Old 11-25-2013, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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another picture
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mainshaft6.jpg  

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #65 of 86 Old 11-25-2013, 05:17 PM
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agear,

near as i can tell from my info when i did a rebuild the snap ring on the inboard side of the 1st/2nd synchronizer clutch (where the splines are) is correct. There is no snap ring outboard of first gear, only the thrust washer. On my first gear you can see a wear pattern where the gear has rotated against the thrust washer so the thrust washer should fit up against first gear and not a shoulder on the shaft. Is this the new shaft? If so, do you get the same fitment on the old shaft?
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post #66 of 86 Old 11-25-2013, 06:51 PM
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The thrust washer for 1st gear bears up against the rear bearing so the rear bearing must be properly positioned againts the shoulder on the shaft. The snap ring on the spline side of the shaft assures that the bearing is properly positioned. Did you have the snap ring properly installed? If so ss it possible that the bearing is the incorrect width? You might try installing synchro hub positioned with it's snap ring, then 1st gear, the thrust washer, then the bearing and it's snap ring while the shaft is out of the case.


PS. In pic on post 64, that is where the thrust washer goes. is that space about the thickness of the thrust washer?
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post #67 of 86 Old 11-25-2013, 08:19 PM
John Strenk
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Nothing goes in that slot



Best of my Recollection there should be a thrust washer not a Snap ring.

Rear bearing presses against the thrust washer and a snap ring holds the bearing in place



Here is the rear thrust washer:


And rear bearing with snap ring



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post #68 of 86 Old 11-26-2013, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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John strenk, I could be wrong but I dont thing a snap ring goes where the arrow is pointing in the picture in post #64 either because its rounded there and dont think a snap ring would sit right.
80cj(bob), I doubt I left a snapring out but its possible ,why do you ask ?
why do you ask about the space ? ? In my photo in post #64- the space between 2nd gear and the shoulder - thats about half the thickness of the thrustwasher . Thats the shoulder right there a fraction of an inch to the lef to the left of the gear

Thanks in advance guys

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #69 of 86 Old 11-26-2013, 02:21 PM
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I forgot how thick the thrust washer is. I guess it's thicker than that space allows. I wonder if you changed the snap ring that positions the 1-2 synchro hub to a thinner one thus allowing the synchro hub to move further forward, it may allow sufficient space for the 1 st gear thrust washer and possibly close up the endplay for 2nd gear?
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post #70 of 86 Old 11-26-2013, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 80cj View Post
I forgot how thick the thrust washer is. I guess it's thicker than that space allows. I wonder if you changed the snap ring that positions the 1-2 synchro hub to a thinner one thus allowing the synchro hub to move further forward, it may allow sufficient space for the 1 st gear thrust washer and possibly close up the endplay for 2nd gear?

Actually bob, thats the shoulder right there and ofcourse the i.d. of the thrust washer won't go over the bigger part of the shaft so it cant fill that space......

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #71 of 86 Old 11-26-2013, 03:15 PM
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OK, I forgot how things fit together. I was thinking the thrust washer was meant to ride on the same shaft diameter as the gear. It's been a while and not having a disassembled one to look at makes it guess work.
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post #72 of 86 Old 11-26-2013, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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how do you tell if your clutch is coming all the way off ? If i'm in gear and have the clutch pedal down I don't go anywhere so I guess it's coming off all the way ?

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #73 of 86 Old 11-27-2013, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Nm about the clutch . Yes is the answer

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #74 of 86 Old 11-29-2013, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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UPDATE: I have found that the shifting is very hard when the jeep is cold and then gets a little easier as the jeep warms up. Right now it's not bad shifting I guess from where I 've been driving it off and on it has warmed up the transmission .Even with engine off I'm guess the heat from the engine is warming the transmission. Maybe when I gets warm enough it's okay...Still a little clunky. Hey maybe its the blocking rings . Either that or the mainshaft is moving around on me .
Bob, I read another thread on here where you found that someone had not installed rear mainshaft ball bearing on the mainshaft all the way so when they put the adapter housing on it in effect put a too much preload on the bearing making the mainshaft hard to turn. How would this effect anything ? Because I can't see how a bearing that is tight is gonna slow a moving jeep down in neutral. So I don't see how that would have an effect on the synchronizing.
I also read where someone had hard shifting problems that were solved by installing 2(double) transmission to transfercase adapter gaskets. So in that case I guess the mainshaft was bottoming out in the input shaft of the transfercase and when bolted up it was pushing the mainshaft into the clutch/shaft of the tranny causing some resistance (limited by the big snapring in the bearing) but I'm back at square one again because I don't really see why this is an issue for synchronization...........?????????? Again. I only have this problem while moving. What is it about moving that makes it hard to shift because with transfer case in neutral and stationary the jeep shifts fine ? I guess it shifts fine when the tranfercase is in neutral because the mainshaft is free to spin either direction making the dog teeth easier to line up ?

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #75 of 86 Old 11-30-2013, 12:09 PM
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The issue where the rear bearing was not installed to proper depth had the effect of placing a heavy load on the main shaft bearings when the adapter was tightened down thus making the shaft difficult to turn. If you can turn your shaft freely with everything assembled,that isn't your problem.
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