T-5 Fluid Question? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com

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post #16 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 12:29 PM
captkhaos
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Oh no... not this again! Well here's my 2 cents worth. I've been running Dexron II since 1993; yep, 20 years. No issues. I don't think they made Dexron III (or IV) back then. I've driven coast to coast (as in NH to CA) 4 times. No issues. From what I remember, Borg Warner or Tremec, in one of their publications, stated that Dexron was the approved lubricant and I've been running it ever since. In fact, now that I think about it... it might be due for a change. I think I'll use Dexron.
Happy New Year,
Dan

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post #17 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 12:41 PM
captkhaos
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Ok, here's a .pdf from Modern Driveline, Inc. It looks like the original BW manual. Section 2-4 says to use Dexron II.
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Docs/...Manual-MDL.pdf
I hope this helps.
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post #18 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 12:57 PM
LumpyGrits
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When the T4 & T5's left BW, they had 4oz of pure Silicone in the cases as AMC filled them with 'oil' on assembly.
AMC, lost tons of $$$ replacing T4's & T5's when they burned up/broke. BW would not accept the claims, as they stated the ATF was not approved. More of AMC bean counters at 'work' that killed the company.
That's why the stinky brown oil(pn#83000000)was brought out. Along with a redesign of the tranny due to lube issues.
The other fact was the use of 2:73 and 3:31 gears and big tires didn't help either.
I'll stay with the 75W-90 syn oil as it's cheapest thing you will ever put into that T-5.
BTW, my FSM(MR252)calls for PN83000000 as the ONLY approved T4/T5 lube.
LG

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post #19 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 01:04 PM
wm69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumpyGrits View Post
wm69-what are you calling "original T5 fluid"?
Is that the brown stinky sulfur laced oil that AMC sold? PN was 83000000.
I have several qts of this AMC stuff. I can assure you that in our current 35* temps, it is no ways the thickness of the 90w it's sitting next to on my self.
LG
Yep, "fishoil"

As you can see from spankrj's analysis he posted, it is CLOSE to 90W oil, but is unique.

Thus to me the logical way to go would be synthetic 90W oil.

85 CJ7 258, borla header, Team Rush, MC2100 ,optima batt, Warn 8274, agr super box 2 & pump, T5 w/ B&M shifter, centerforce 2, superior 1 piece axles, warn hubs 2.5 in lift, 31" BFG MT

85 CJ7 258, A/C, T176, MC2100, Team Rush, Warn XD8000i, superwinch hubs, 3in lift 31" BFG AT/KO
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post #20 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 01:09 PM
LumpyGrits
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That wasn't fish oil that made the smell-It's the high sulfur content.
That sulfur would later turn the seals rock hard and they would crack/leak.
BTDT,
LG

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post #21 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 01:34 PM
wm69
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I read somewhere that the AMC engineers called the fluid fishoil......

quoted from a long ago post that I remember seeing, but don't remember where (found this link with a google search)....

http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index...=10422.10;wap2

The problem with T-5 is very complex. From what I have read, the T-5 is rated to 265 ft-lb torque, the AX-15 is rated to 285 ft-lb, and the NV3550 is rated (conservatively) at 300 ft-lb. So, if it is nearly as strong as the AX-15, why does it have such a bad reputation?

I hit the website for http://www.5speeds.com/ talk about a shop that knows their T-5s...the guy was very very knowledgeable! He indicated the largest problems (that gave T-5s a bad rap) dealt with a recalled third gear (went from 29 spline to 27 spline). That upgrade is supposed to help beef the thing up a good deal. Other problems deal with incorrect or improper fluid levels. These non-world class transmissions operate without needle bearings (instead having deep oil grooves). As such, they should only run gear oil.

I have done a decent bit of research on the "correct" fluid to use. A good friend is the Parts Manager at a local Jeep store and works with many mechanics who worked on these, I have looked over Factory Service Manuals from 1982, 1983, and 1984-1986, searched the Factory Recalls, and Tech Bulletins...

When they first came out, AMC recommended using ATF (1982 FSM). However, there was a recall for this in 1982 (Recall Number: 82V125000) indicating that the “ORIGINAL PRODUCTION TRANSMISSION LUBRICANT USED IN THE INVOLVED VEHICLES MAY NOT PROVIDE ADEQUATE LUBRICATION TO PROTECT THE TRANSMISSIONS FIRST GEAR.” FSM supplement for 1982 (Tech Bulletin) and the 1983 FSM both indicate to use 90wt in the T-5. By 1984, AMC started using a proprietary manual transmission lubricant. This was affectionately referred to as "fish oil" by the mechanics or AMC manual transmission fluid (Part Number 8983 000 000). This fluid was discontinued by AMC and currently, Chrysler is recommending the use of GL3 gear oil.

From my limited understanding, GL3 is very different from GL4 or GL5. I emailed Valvoline regarding this (as I haven't seen GL3 or GL4 in a very long time). They indicated that the issue is with the type of sulfate used in the lube. Apparently activated sulfate (used in some GL5 lubes) can eat brass synchros. Valvoline indicated: "The Valvoline High Performance Gear Oil 80-w90 can be used for both GL4 and GL5. The real concern is the type of sulfate used in the gear oil. You can not use an active sulfate for GL-4 applications. Valvoline uses an inactive sulfate that will not harm any yellow metal such as bronze. This allows our products to be used in manual transmissions that have bronze synchronizers."

All of this being said, there is an issue with shifting in colder climates. Apparently, the gear lube is almost too thick to allow smooth shifting on cold days, until the lube warms up a little. Many have reported good luck with synthetics, some have cut the gear lube with a little ATF, and some have reported good luck running 20w50 motor oil. I am not sure what the overall best solution is, but the only “Factory” recommended solution is to run 80-90…

85 CJ7 258, borla header, Team Rush, MC2100 ,optima batt, Warn 8274, agr super box 2 & pump, T5 w/ B&M shifter, centerforce 2, superior 1 piece axles, warn hubs 2.5 in lift, 31" BFG MT

85 CJ7 258, A/C, T176, MC2100, Team Rush, Warn XD8000i, superwinch hubs, 3in lift 31" BFG AT/KO
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post #22 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 01:40 PM
LumpyGrits
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Many would 'cut the 90W, 50% with ATF also.
Good find wm69.
LG

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post #23 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 02:32 PM
seabass1858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captkhaos View Post
Oh no... not this again! Well here's my 2 cents worth. I've been running Dexron II since 1993; yep, 20 years. No issues. I don't think they made Dexron III (or IV) back then. I've driven coast to coast (as in NH to CA) 4 times. No issues. From what I remember, Borg Warner or Tremec, in one of their publications, stated that Dexron was the approved lubricant and I've been running it ever since. In fact, now that I think about it... it might be due for a change. I think I'll use Dexron.
Happy New Year,
Dan
not to hijack the thread bu im going from ga to az this summer so wish me luck and any advise that anyone can think of, pm me and it would be appreciated.

james
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post #24 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 03:44 PM
LumpyGrits
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Originally Posted by seabass1858 View Post
not to hijack the thread bu im going from ga to az this summer so wish me luck and any advise that anyone can think of, pm me and it would be appreciated.

james
Rabbit's Foot......

LG

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post #25 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
SouthernGypsy
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OK, Here is a related question.... What have you guys found works best to use in the D300 transfer case?

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post #26 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 04:28 PM
chromegrille
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75-90 was the approved replacement for the stink fluid.
80-90 too thick in cold weather, hard shifting.
To whoever is still using ATF, good luck with that, you'll need it.
I saw the T5 failures with ATF in person.
It was all about increased fuel mileage ratings, nothing more.
Take what LG, wm69 and myself post to the bank.
"here endeth the lesson"......
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post #27 of 79 Old 12-27-2013, 04:41 PM
LumpyGrits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernGypsy View Post
OK, Here is a related question.... What have you guys found works best to use in the D300 transfer case?
I use Stay-Lube 80W90 in t'case and both diffs w/DL's.
LG

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post #28 of 79 Old 12-28-2013, 01:05 PM
CJWeaver
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So everyone is using 75w90 or 80w90 in their D300 transfer cases?
I used 75w140 synthetic in mine ~ is that bad?

I've been reading a week now but had to join just so u could ask that
I just got back from Afghanistan two weeks ago and have started driving the 82 CJ7 that me and my dad restored together when I was a teenager. It's first time in about eight years it's been driven on a regular basis though he kept it maintained while I have been away in college and then training, Germany and then the war. The first thing I had done was to take it down to my local store and have them do a complete fluid and filter change on it and my receipt says that they used 75w140 synthetic in my transfer case, and 75w90 synthetic in my transmission and axles. Is that wrong?
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post #29 of 79 Old 12-28-2013, 01:16 PM
LumpyGrits
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Originally Posted by CJWeaver View Post
So everyone is using 75w90 or 80w90 in their D300 transfer cases?
I used 75w140 synthetic in mine ~ is that bad?

I've been reading a week now but had to join just so u could ask that
WELCOME!
If you would fill out your profile so we know your AO that would help.
Where I live, it wouldn't be an issue.
You see what I use.
Let me ask you why you chose the oil you are using.
LG

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post #30 of 79 Old 12-28-2013, 01:20 PM
CJWeaver
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Oh and they used 4.5 quarts of 15W40 oil with one half-quart of Lucas oil additive in my engine.
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