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Unread 11-14-2011, 02:31 PM   #1
Ironhorse6
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sway bar or no sway bar

as i dig into to correcting the front lift on my cj (SOA) im going to put the springs under.

i noticed there is no sway bar on my jeep just holes in the frame. i know sway bars can limit off road wheel travel but i've sen the JKS "quick detach" sway links

any good reasons to put the sway back on versus leaving it off. i expect 80-90% of my time will be on the road

4" lift with 33" tires

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Unread 11-14-2011, 02:58 PM   #2
skizriz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhorse6 View Post
i expect 80-90% of my time will be on the road
Mine is night and day with the sway bars connected or disconnected. Stiffer springs wouldn't be as bad, but with very soft worn springs, and a SOA, I wouldn't run without one. That's why I added one, it was a pretty hairy ride.
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Unread 11-14-2011, 03:07 PM   #3
Ironhorse6
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Originally Posted by skizriz View Post
Mine is night and day with the sway bars connected or disconnected. Stiffer springs wouldn't be as bad, but with very soft worn springs, and a SOA, I wouldn't run without one. That's why I added one, it was a pretty hairy ride.
i making mine spring under lift. new springs. im thinking i will need longer sway links on the only ones ive found so far is the JKS
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Unread 11-15-2011, 06:40 AM   #4
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Better to have it and be able to disconnect it than not have it and wish you did when going down the highway.

There are other brands out there. I recommend you stay away from the type that splits in the middle. Use the kind that retains the link on a stud with a pin.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 07:27 AM   #5
nshefbuch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PavementPounder
Better to have it and be able to disconnect it than not have it and wish you did when going down the highway.

There are other brands out there. I recommend you stay away from the type that splits in the middle. Use the kind that retains the link on a stud with a pin.
Agree

Plus a sway bar is mainly for on road and as you said you will spend most of your time on road. You could always add it later in the build but I'd plan on adding either way. Granted if you go SUA it won't be needed as bad as soa would but it made a huge difference on my cj when it was SUA and an even bigger difference now that it is soa.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 02:44 PM   #6
Mudviper
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On my 79 CJ7 I am also running 33" tires with about 4" of lift with no sway bar. Most of my driving is around town and I have no issues at all. In fact it wasn't until 6 months after I bought the CJ that I noticed it didn't have a sway bar on it. I have one at home, but don't think I will ever put in on. I also ran a 92 YJ with 4" of lift and no sway bar. Once again, I didn't have any issues driving it around, just have to get used to a little extra sway is all around tight corners..lol
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Unread 11-15-2011, 05:13 PM   #7
Mike Romain
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Just be Very aware that by removing a needed legal safety feature like the anti sway bar that in some places you will be found "at fault" automatically in an accident situation because of that. They figure you might have been able to avoid the accident or control the vehicle properly if that part was in place. It could turn a fatality 'accident' into a real bad day and manslaughter charges for knowingly driving an 'unsafe' vehicle.

I was almost in such a situation up here in Canada when a drunk hit me and almost died. The cops impounded the vehicle and warned me about it all being properly safe or else idea. Even mis matched tires on a 4x4 is a major no no they told me.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 05:23 PM   #8
nshefbuch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain
Just be Very aware that by removing a needed legal safety feature like the anti sway bar that in some places you will be found "at fault" automatically in an accident situation because of that. They figure you might have been able to avoid the accident or control the vehicle properly if that part was in place. It could turn a fatality 'accident' into a real bad day and manslaughter charges for knowingly driving an 'unsafe' vehicle.

I was almost in such a situation up here in Canada when a drunk hit me and almost died. The cops impounded the vehicle and warned me about it all being properly safe or else idea. Even mis matched tires on a 4x4 is a major no no they told me.
Hmm. Didn't know a sway bar is legally a must. Not sure how this could be as it doesn't affect steering at all but driver response. Plus a ton of vehicles excluding jeeps didn't even come with one.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 05:34 PM   #9
Mike Romain
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Originally Posted by nshefbuch View Post
Hmm. Didn't know a sway bar is legally a must. Not sure how this could be as it doesn't affect steering at all but driver response. Plus a ton of vehicles excluding jeeps didn't even come with one.
Ralph Nader had it in for Jeeps. Anti sway bars was one of the safety modifications that were mandated for tall vehicles.

The anti sway bar really does affect steering response, when the body dives to the side, the steering shaft moves on it's own (sort of, the person tends to stay straight so the wheel turns) and the inertia of the rolling motion can cause a slide out or a plain roll over.

Both the police and the insurance company were very plain about that one because they find so many 4x4's with them disconnected for off road.

The quick connects are the way to go. I have those on mine. Pull a couple pins and away you go.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 05:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nshefbuch View Post
Hmm. Didn't know a sway bar is legally a must. Not sure how this could be as it doesn't affect steering at all but driver response. Plus a ton of vehicles excluding jeeps didn't even come with one.

that's what I thought, but maybe it's a Canada thing. Never heard of such a thing here. I agree the vehicle needs to be safe. But not all vehicles are required to have sway bars. However if the suspension was designed to use one, then it will effect the handling, not having it( of course you all know that) My cj7 doesn't have one, I have one I may put on in the future if it needs it. But I don't plan on much, if any at all ...road use.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 06:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nshefbuch View Post
Hmm. Didn't know a sway bar is legally a must.
It isn't. (Or should I say...wasn't.) Its rare to find a vehicle not equipped with a front sway bar these days, but they were merely options on CJs for years. They became standard in the later years, so you could conceivably get tagged by a State law for negligence which contains language about altering or deleting factory suspension equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nshefbuch View Post
Not sure how this could be as it doesn't affect steering at all but driver response.
It doesn't affect driver response. (How would it slow down how fast your arms provide steering input?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
The anti sway bar really does affect steering response, when the body dives to the side, the steering shaft moves on it's own (sort of, the person tends to stay straight so the wheel turns) and the inertia of the rolling motion can cause a slide out or a plain roll over.
It affects steering, but I think that example is a little unrealistic due to the "no hands" thing.

If you're holding the wheel still (regardless of whether you are traveling straight or in a turn, the shaft isn't doing anything. Neither is the pitman arm. As the vehicle experiences body roll and the springs compress or droop, the angle of the drag link changes. As it does, the distance between the pitman arm end and the passenger steering arm end changes. Since the drag link is a fixed length, the steering arm is what is pushed or pulled, either augmenting or reducing any input (or lack thereof) being given by the driver. All the action happens at the knuckles.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 06:24 PM   #12
nshefbuch
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[QUOTE="PavementPounder"]

It isn't. (Or should I say...wasn't.) Its rare to find a vehicle not equipped with a front sway bar these days, but they were merely options on CJs for years. They became standard in the later years, so you could conceivably get tagged by a State law for negligence which contains language about altering or deleting factory suspension equipment.

Then any lift or lowering would fall in this category. I'm merely stating a sway bar can't be mandated legal when so many vehicles came with out them. Same goes for seat belts. It is state law in most states now that every passenger has to have a seat belt however many older vehicles are an exception to this as they didn't have back seat belts in many of the vehicles back in the day.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 06:31 PM   #13
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Then any lift or lowering would fall in this category.
You are correct. Many States do have legislation which forbids many of the modifications we make. My State is one of them. If you get in an accident with a lifted vehicle, you *may* be found negligent (or even criminally negligent) depending on the severity and circumstances of the accident. Its just a fact we have to consider in our hobby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nshefbuch View Post
I'm merely stating a sway bar can't be mandated legal when so many vehicles came with out them.
Yes they certainly can. All it takes is language which forbids removal of any steering or suspension components that the vehicle came with from the factory. Many States have language to this effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nshefbuch View Post
Same goes for seat belts. It is state law in most states now that every passenger has to have a seat belt however many older vehicles are an exception to this as they didn't have back seat belts in many of the vehicles back in the day.
If you look up seat belt laws, you will find that they were mandatory after a certain year unless the vehicle was not supplied with them from the factory. The fact that some vehicles were built without them does not nullify the law. It accommodates that possibility.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 07:24 PM   #14
Rick7
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Sway bars are very good! - disconnects are #$!@

Sway bars make a big difference on-road and increasingly so with more flexible suspensions.

Has anyone found a better sway-bar disconnect for the older Jeeps? The disconnects with the pin through the middle of the connecting rods can be a real pain to get off, and then a triple pain to reconnect again. I move my Jeep to different angles, and then I try to push the sway bar down with a crow bar, in order to get the split halves of the connecting rods pushed back together. I use a crow bar with one hand while trying to be an contortionist and push the lock pin through the hole in the rod with my other hand. Never something I look forward too at the end of the day while dirty, tired, ready to go home. I keep thinking there must be something someone has thought of that makes this process easier. - -
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Unread 11-16-2011, 06:09 AM   #15
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Has anyone found a better sway-bar disconnect for the older Jeeps? The disconnects with the pin through the middle of the connecting rods can be a real pain to get off, and then a triple pain to reconnect again.
The style I described in my previous post that you disconnect from a pin/stud on the axle, swing up, and re-attach to another pin/stud that you have added to your frame. That way nothing is swinging around underneath while you are wheeling and there's nothing to tie up or zip-tie. They are generally referred to as "next generation".
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