Sudden ignition prob. Need immediate help - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > Sudden ignition prob. Need immediate help

TeraFlex Now at Rockridge 4WD! BEST DEALS around!Alloy usa heavy duty ball joint kitsENGO QUADLUX 6" to 54" LED AMBER AND WHITE MULTI

Reply
Unread 08-24-2013, 11:18 PM   #16
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 4,532
For the MSD 6A (you do not say what you have exactly or how it is wired) you MAY have:
  • ground is a heavy black wire,
  • power is a heavy red wire,
  • switched 12 volts is a thin red wire,
  • the coil positive (+) wire is orange,
  • the coil negative (-) wire is thin black,
  • the signal wires are green and violet.
Apart from the first three wires please check the wire colours match YOUR setup, there are several MSD boxes and several ways to wire them into an ignition system.

If you are not getting 12V on the orange wire you need to check the other wires.


Are you getting 12V on both Red wires and is your ground good on the heavy black wire???

Just having 12V from the switch will not be enough to get the MSD to work, it needs the large red wire to be live as well as a good ground. Like any good electronics the ignition switch is not directly in loop to the coil.

If you do not have voltage on that large red wire you will have to find out how it is fused and what it is connected to. The correct way to wire it is to a circuit that is live in Run and Start, those circuits having Red with tracer wires. If it is wired to a circuit with a solid red wire it will always be live and a drain on the battery.

As suggested best way to check is with a test light. I don't know if the MSD is sensitive to low voltage i.e. dying battery.

It may be unrelated to your battery issues, like buses CJ problems come in fleets and then nothing for ages.

__________________
BagusJeep lives in Bali, the Land of Temples.
With a Jeep every prayer counts.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-25-2013, 04:49 AM   #17
vinnyabs
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 520
So woke up early to try again. No success. But did remember that the solenoid has to be mounted to be grounded and work! Did that and the motor actually turned. I didn't hold the key long enough to start I guess bc I wasn't expecting anything different. I tightened everything down and right back to click at solenoid and nothing else. Try a couple of more times checking different locations with a test light and eventually not even a click although test light still lights up. Had to bring wife's car to work today so ill be back at it tonight.

86, no neutral safety. Bagus, I have team rush and nuttered. No extra spaghetti. Just the bare necessities and the msd is exactly as you quoted.
__________________
Earning an engineering degree one CJ7 hiccup at a time
vinnyabs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-25-2013, 05:32 AM   #18
86cj74.2L
Web Wheeler
 
86cj74.2L's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stouchsburg, PA
Posts: 6,772
The MSD provides the power to the coil and it won't do that I believe until it sees a signal from the distributor pickup.

The little red wire to the MSD has power in the on position?

Do you have power going to the starter solenoid in the start position?
86cj74.2L is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-25-2013, 06:24 AM   #19
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert, CO
Posts: 10,497
Vinny,

Here's the procedure for testing the MSD box....

1. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.
2. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a good ground.
3. Disconnect the MSD Magnetic Pickup connector from the distributor.
4. Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE.
5. With a small jumper wire, short the Green and Violet magnetic pickup wires together then pull the jumper off. Each time the short is removed a spark should jump If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.

If there is no spark:

1. Inspect all of the wiring.
2. Substitute another coil and test again. If there is now spark, the coil is at fault.
3. If there is still no spark, check to make sure there is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the test.
4. After inspecting the test procedures and inspecting all of the wiring, there is still no spark, the Ignition is at fault.

I had a similar issue with my new MSD ignition. My engine randomly shut down while driving. The above test showed no spark. The problem ended up being a poorly crimped connector on the large red wire to the battery positive.

Good luck,

Matt
Matt1981CJ7 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-25-2013, 10:35 AM   #20
Mace350
Registered User
1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnyabs View Post
So woke up early to try again. No success. But did remember that the solenoid has to be mounted to be grounded and work! Did that and the motor actually turned. I didn't hold the key long enough to start I guess bc I wasn't expecting anything different. I tightened everything down and right back to click at solenoid and nothing else. Try a couple of more times checking different locations with a test light and eventually not even a click although test light still lights up. Had to bring wife's car to work today so ill be back at it tonight.

86, no neutral safety. Bagus, I have team rush and nuttered. No extra spaghetti. Just the bare necessities and the msd is exactly as you quoted.
I know everything is clean, just sounds like your losing a ground somewhere. Maybe buy a ground strap kit but just for the hell of it I would take an old wire and ground the solenoid. Especially after reading this.
Mace350 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-25-2013, 11:54 AM   #21
jeepwhore
Hair puller xtraordinaire
 
jeepwhore's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 3,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace350 View Post
I know everything is clean, just sounds like your losing a ground somewhere. Maybe buy a ground strap kit but just for the hell of it I would take an old wire and ground the solenoid. Especially after reading this.
x2.

After you got it to turn over the first thing I would have done is add a dedicated ground to the solenoid. Or just scratch the paint off the inner fender where it's mounted to ensure a good ground. I had a similar issue and chased the problem through the entire ignition circuit......only to find the solenoid grounded poorly. I no longer trust any sheet metal grounds like the inner fenders!
__________________
'84 CJ-7: Yota axles (spartan locked front, e-locked rear) 4" BDS, 1" Daystar & 3/8" shackle lifts, 35" X-Terrains on steelies, YJ Tub & family roll bar, heater blower upgrade, 4.2L w/MC2100 & Team Rush, Warn 8274. Rebuilt 4.2/4.0 hybrid, AX15 and twin sticks/clocking ring waiting to go in.

The advertised position for a topless, dirty jeep girl has been filled......by my wife. Thanks to all that applied.
<------------and yes, that is her.
:-D
jeepwhore is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-25-2013, 07:44 PM   #22
vinnyabs
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 520
Thanks to all of you for once again coming through in a pinch!! I found the culprit and many of you were right. It was unsuspected. The switch power wire to the msd was showing hot when on. Apparently not hot enough. Changed it from a link into the ignition wiring directly to the solenoid run pole and the end of a hunt!! Apparently my new snorkel hoses were putting a lot of pressure on it where it was and the connection didn't support enough current to power the box!! Just when you think you know something&hellip;. Thanks again to all of you. This community is the best!!
__________________
Earning an engineering degree one CJ7 hiccup at a time
vinnyabs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-27-2013, 09:55 PM   #23
vinnyabs
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 520
I am sorry for the bump. But not really. I have been known to get passionate about my situations. But I wanted my thanks to be repeated. Matt, Shawn, 86, LG, uptillnow, and many more have been more than helpful. I appreciate every bit of advice even if I come across as harsh. It's the Italian and NY in me. What I know is that my baby is running better than some jeeps of the production. Line bc of all of you. Thanks again. Sappy ***** over.
__________________
Earning an engineering degree one CJ7 hiccup at a time
vinnyabs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-27-2013, 10:00 PM   #24
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert, CO
Posts: 10,497
Good news, Vinny!!

And thanks for the kind words.

Matt
Matt1981CJ7 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-27-2013, 10:05 PM   #25
LumpyGrits
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Mojave Desert Palmdale Ca. U.S.A.
Posts: 5,110
Your welcome
Glad it's run'n.
LG
__________________
Have'n you along, is like loose'n 2 good men
LumpyGrits is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-27-2013, 11:21 PM   #26
86cj74.2L
Web Wheeler
 
86cj74.2L's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stouchsburg, PA
Posts: 6,772
Yes your welcome
86cj74.2L is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-27-2013, 11:37 PM   #27
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 4,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnyabs View Post
Thanks to all of you for once again coming through in a pinch!! I found the culprit and many of you were right. It was unsuspected. The switch power wire to the msd was showing hot when on. Apparently not hot enough. Changed it from a link into the ignition wiring directly to the solenoid run pole and the end of a hunt!! Apparently my new snorkel hoses were putting a lot of pressure on it where it was and the connection didn't support enough current to power the box!! Just when you think you know something&hellip;. Thanks again to all of you. This community is the best!!
Is that pole live in Stop? The solenoid does not control the power on in Run. The only pole which will be live in Run will be the incoming supply from the battery, in which case the box will always be on and drain the battery.

If that is where it is connected you could insert a relay controlled by the ignition circuit and I would think about a fuse. Alternatively a battery cut off switch and a fuse.
__________________
BagusJeep lives in Bali, the Land of Temples.
With a Jeep every prayer counts.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-28-2013, 04:25 AM   #28
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert, CO
Posts: 10,497
Good catch, Bagus. One side of the solenoid is always hot, the other is hot only in the Start position, but not in Run.

I sure hope our buddy Vinny doesn't wake up to a dead battery.

Vinny, what switched power source did you have it connected to before? Was it the big red w/white stripe wire? Did you solder and waterproof the connection?

Matt
Matt1981CJ7 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-28-2013, 07:41 AM   #29
vinnyabs
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 520
I attached it to the smaller run pole on the top of the solenoid where the ignition switch connects. Not the large side hot pole. Before I had it spliced into the ignition switch wire along the firewall. It wasn't soldered before bit it is now. I originally was working on too much and too quickly and had said I would come back to it and do it right but this beat me to it.
__________________
Earning an engineering degree one CJ7 hiccup at a time
vinnyabs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-28-2013, 02:32 PM   #30
86cj74.2L
Web Wheeler
 
86cj74.2L's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stouchsburg, PA
Posts: 6,772
The old + wire to the original ignition coil is a good wire for the run input to the MSD.
86cj74.2L is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.