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Unread 10-29-2004, 01:09 PM   #1
CJ's 7
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Steering Stabilizer ??

I am running 33's w/ a 4.5 RE lift. I need a new steering stabilizer and am wondering if a replacement single unit would be ok, or should I upgrade to a dual?

83 CJ7

Thanks!

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Unread 10-29-2004, 02:49 PM   #2
contender54
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If your steering is setup properly, you don't really need any stabilizer. One should suffice. If you need 2, that means problems are just being covered up and not addressed.
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Unread 10-29-2004, 06:43 PM   #3
CJ51973
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I agree. You don't need the stabilzer. You need your steering to work correctly.
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Unread 10-30-2004, 08:18 AM   #4
Greezy Gringo
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About a 8-12 months ago someone posted a link to a company that sold really beefed up steering components i.e. tierods and stuff. For the life of me I can't find it. Anyone know who sells heavy duty steering parts for our CJ's?
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Unread 10-30-2004, 09:03 AM   #5
Knight6
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Gringo, try searching for "Big Daddy Offroad" They sell beefy drag links and tie rods that fit your stock CJ Tie Rod Ends. That's what I have and they are awesome.

As for the stabilizer. When I mangled my stock tie rods at the Rubicon this year my stabilizer was munched. I upgraded to the Big Daddy rods and never replaced a stabilizer at all (and I'm running MT 35"s). I (think) I've had no problems on or off road.

But I do have one problem occasionally and it may be related to no stabilizer, can anyone advise?

About 4 times in as many months I've been driving on the road at about 25 or 30 mph, all of the sudden my front end feels to be hopping about 4 inches up and down. When I leaned my head out to look the drivers front wheel was wagging back and forth as if I was weaving the steering wheel back and forth violently but the steering wheel was straight and no pull on it. I think it has always started after a bump or during a corner, I'm not sure what caused it. But in every case I slow down to about 5 mph and the wheels straighten themselves out. When I stop to check there's nothing wrong with the wheels, bearings, steering, etc.

Is this "Crabbing" does this mean I set the Toe-In too narrow when I replaced the steering linkage? Or is this because I don't have a stabilizer and I need to put one back on?
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Unread 10-30-2004, 01:03 PM   #6
jeepmor
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answers and parts

That death wobble is what a steering stabilizer is there to prevent. I just went to hysteer kit and toed my tires in 1/32" to 1/64" in on the front compared to the back. This swap eliminated my steering stabilizer and I have not had any issues with my 34x9.5 swampers, but it was a concern. The shop I bought the parts from is owned by a guy who ran local alignment shop for ~15 years and he told me not to worry about it if it never wobbles. You may just need to do an alignment. Me, I'm cheap and just did it in my garage with the front up on jackstands. It was by no means high tech like the laser aligners in the shops, it was me with the tierod adjustments and a tape measure. It's a 4wd, I'll probably knock it out of alignment wheeling, so why pay $40 to have something good until I go offroad and beat on it.

Having done this, I now have a set of stock length heavy duty tierod and drag link from my 84 CJ7, along with the LH and RH jamb nuts. Send me a private message if you or anyone else on this post is interested in purchasing. I think they go for about $130 new for both drag link and tie rod, w/o tie rod ends. I reused my moog ends, so they are not available, they are employed on my jeep. I'll part with them for $75, buyer to pay shipping.
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Unread 10-30-2004, 10:52 PM   #7
Jeep Daddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight6
Gringo, try searching for "Big Daddy Offroad" They sell beefy drag links and tie rods that fit your stock CJ Tie Rod Ends. That's what I have and they are awesome.

As for the stabilizer. When I mangled my stock tie rods at the Rubicon this year my stabilizer was munched. I upgraded to the Big Daddy rods and never replaced a stabilizer at all (and I'm running MT 35"s). I (think) I've had no problems on or off road.

But I do have one problem occasionally and it may be related to no stabilizer, can anyone advise?

About 4 times in as many months I've been driving on the road at about 25 or 30 mph, all of the sudden my front end feels to be hopping about 4 inches up and down. When I leaned my head out to look the drivers front wheel was wagging back and forth as if I was weaving the steering wheel back and forth violently but the steering wheel was straight and no pull on it. I think it has always started after a bump or during a corner, I'm not sure what caused it. But in every case I slow down to about 5 mph and the wheels straighten themselves out. When I stop to check there's nothing wrong with the wheels, bearings, steering, etc.

Is this "Crabbing" does this mean I set the Toe-In too narrow when I replaced the steering linkage? Or is this because I don't have a stabilizer and I need to put one back on?
This is called "bump steer" and is very dangerous. This is usually caused by too little caster because of longer than stock shackles.
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Unread 10-31-2004, 06:32 AM   #8
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I run 35" TSLs and no stabilizer. I have run my Jeep at 60-65 mpg with no problems. I cranked in about 5-6 degrees of positive caster when I cut down my front D44. We all try to get some positive caster but too much can be bad too. Hard to turn, hard on ball joints and steering linkage.. As for the steering problems, there are two common problems that can pop up when altering a vehicle's suspension (lifting). Bumpsteer and Death Wobble. Bump steer happens as a result of a steep drag link angle from the steering box to the axle's steering knuckle. When the vehicle hits a hard bump at speed, the suspension quickly compresses effectively shortening the distance between the steering box and that steering knuckle. Since the drag link can't compress, it just forces the steering knuckle to turn to the right. So what happens? Hit the bump = unexpected right turn... Vehicle then unweights the suspension on the way back down (shortening that distance and pulling the steering knuckle)= unexpected left turn. Of course this all happens very quickly and the bigger the bump, the more severe the bumpsteer. To counter bumpsteer, a nice flat drag link angle is desireable and a track bar can be used. A trackbar setup at the same angle as the draglink will force the axle to move under compression and droop instead of the steering knuckle thereby reducing/eliminating bumpsteer. The dreaded death wobble is different. A vehicle's front tires track straight as a result of proper suspension design, alignment and nice tight suspension pieces. Failure in these areas can cause the front tires to violently hunt from side to side. Steering caster is the imaginaring line drawn thru the upper and lower ball joint and determines if the front tire is gonna be "pulled" along.. like a shopping cart's front wheels, or pushed along.. like pushing the shopping cart with the front wheels turned around backwards. If you were to push a shopping cart with the front wheels turned around backwards, they would simply rotate around 180 degrees to their normal position. However on a vehicle, suspension design keeps them from turning all the way around but it does allow them to sort of slam from one side to the other in a violent unwelcomed oscillation. Some common cures for deathwobble are to increase positive steering caster angle and tighten up sloppy steering linkage/suspension pieces... hope I got it right. If not someone slap me and make a correction.
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Unread 10-31-2004, 02:44 PM   #9
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O.K. so it sounds like both of you are on the right track, but...

I have overstock length shackles, BUT! I have had them on for years with absolutely no problems at any speed from 75+ on the Highway, to 35 mph around town to .3 mph on a trail. The problem only started after I replaced my stock drag link and tie rod with an after market beefier set from Big Daddy. They use the same TREs so nothing should have been affected other than my toe-in, which I had to guess and set myself, mainly because the original tie-rod was now shaped like a u-joint and I had to adjust the hell out of it to get me off the trail.

As for the problem, it sounds much like what you described with bump steer. It is only caused at speeds around 35 mph where I hit a rough piece of road at speed. The one side compresses, and the steering wheel jerks, but not once like you mentioned, rather it death wobbles back and forth trying to find center until I slow to under 5 mph or so and give the wheels a chance to calm down and find center again.

I just took a look at my toe-in and found (By measureing from inside rim to inside rim) that I had a good bit more than a 1/4 inch wider in the back. From what I've heard this should be 1/16" to 1/32" so I udjusted it to be closer to 1/16". I'll ride this for a week and see if it helps or hurts.

As for the Caster, where and how do I measure this??? Given that I have longer shackles it certainly could be a problem.

Thanks for the help.
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[SIZE="4"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]KNIGHT6 - '78 CJ5. [/B] [/COLOR] [/SIZE]
Ford 9" x2, Tru-Hi-9 High pinion, 5.14s, 2 detroits,
SOA, D44 'flat-knuckles' High Steer over springs,
Chevy 5.7L Vortec, Ford T-18 with granny-low 1st
37x14.00 Iroks, Warn 9K lb winch,
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Unread 10-31-2004, 04:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight6
O.K. so it sounds like both of you are on the right track, but...

I have overstock length shackles, BUT! I have had them on for years with absolutely no problems at any speed from 75+ on the Highway, to 35 mph around town to .3 mph on a trail. The problem only started after I replaced my stock drag link and tie rod with an after market beefier set from Big Daddy. They use the same TREs so nothing should have been affected other than my toe-in, which I had to guess and set myself, mainly because the original tie-rod was now shaped like a u-joint and I had to adjust the hell out of it to get me off the trail.

As for the problem, it sounds much like what you described with bump steer. It is only caused at speeds around 35 mph where I hit a rough piece of road at speed. The one side compresses, and the steering wheel jerks, but not once like you mentioned, rather it death wobbles back and forth trying to find center until I slow to under 5 mph or so and give the wheels a chance to calm down and find center again.

I just took a look at my toe-in and found (By measureing from inside rim to inside rim) that I had a good bit more than a 1/4 inch wider in the back. From what I've heard this should be 1/16" to 1/32" so I udjusted it to be closer to 1/16". I'll ride this for a week and see if it helps or hurts.

As for the Caster, where and how do I measure this??? Given that I have longer shackles it certainly could be a problem.

Thanks for the help.
Some guys just use an angle finder to see how many degrees it's sitting. I purchased a cheap on today from Harbor Freight for $2.50. You can also take it to a front end shop and have them put it on an alignment machine and tell you what it is.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think you want between 2 and 4 degrees positive caster.

If you bashed up your drag link pretty good you might have done some other damage you can't see. You might do a complete check of everything mentioned by berserk including wheel bearings, ball joints, ujoints, tie rods, steering gear box, steering shaft, suspension Ubolts, etc.
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Unread 11-07-2004, 10:05 PM   #11
Knight6
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I put a single steering stabilizer back on and all is right as rain again. No more death wobble/bump steer problems.
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[SIZE="4"][COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]KNIGHT6 - '78 CJ5. [/B] [/COLOR] [/SIZE]
Ford 9" x2, Tru-Hi-9 High pinion, 5.14s, 2 detroits,
SOA, D44 'flat-knuckles' High Steer over springs,
Chevy 5.7L Vortec, Ford T-18 with granny-low 1st
37x14.00 Iroks, Warn 9K lb winch,
Metal Fusion tube fenders,full cage frame tie-in, +++
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