[KSToyz]

I read the sticky and did a search and I didn't find what I was looking for....could be the guy behind the computer....usually is.

Here is the issue. Jeep has a suspension and body lift, PO had a bunch of new parts installed and all the front end components are tight with no play. The issue is I have 2-3" of play in the steering before tire movement. This is pretty consistant from parked with motor off to highway speed.....but as you increase speed it obviously exagerates the wandering.

The steering box is from O'Reilly and is just slightly over a year old....I slightly tightened the adjustment and all that accomplished was to stiffen the turning but didn't reduce the play in the wheel..so put it back to where it was. I suspect either the shaft from the wheel to the box or the box itself. Can someone explain to me how to test each of the components to help isolate this? I'm quite sure it has been beat to death in the past so maybe just post some links to other threads?

Thanks alot.

[John N]

Testing is pretty simple; someone turns the wheel slowly (left and right) while you watch each component for play. If the steering shaft is original, I'd bet that it's a big piece of the problem. Other parts may be new, but thing like the box mount can get loose or crack. Check it all.

[KSToyz]

John,

The box is less than an year old and the brackets are brand new as well. I simply can't tell where the play is. I was watching it as I had my wife slowly turn the wheel last night and I'm simply not sure. Should I do this with the motor running since it is a power steering setup?

Thanks,

[Blue83CJ7]

I would do it with the engine off, so you have more resistance and can see the movement...

I have two thoughts on this one:

1. When I pulled my steering shaft, I could visually see that the splines on the shaft coupler where it slides over the gearbox input shaft were totally stripped out, which allowed the shaft to make a quarter turn without engaging the steering gearbox.

Maybe if you pull the shaft you can get a better look at the splines and components condition.


2. When I turn my wheel, the whole front of the jeep frame/body shifts left or right over the axles before the motion was transferred to the wheels.

To give you an example: The stock stamped piece go like this when I turn:




This might justbe my crazy theory, but it seems like on the highway when the body catches up to the axles and re-centers itself, it makes me oversteer so I have to complensate back the other way and it causes alot of correction on the highway.

I am thinking that if I had the shackles that had the cross bracing and look like an H instead of the two weak stock plates it might cure this, but I haven't had the money to test this out yet.

[John N]

I'm still betting on the steering shaft. I know the aftermarket ones are expensive, but they are worth it (to me anyway). I see you have 4" spring lift and 3" body lift; that means your stock steering shaft has been extended, causing less engagement of the stock slip joint. Replace it. Also, part of the less responsive issue could relate to a drop pitman arm. Consider a tie rod flip, if this could be part of the issue.

[jpfaris]

John, how does a DPA cause less response? and also, how does a DPA cause less turning radius. And I'm not being argumentative, at least not with you, I have been having this debate with someone this week.

[John N]

Originally Posted by jpfaris

John, how does a DPA cause less response? and also, how does a DPA cause less turning radius. And I'm not being argumentative, at least not with you, I have been having this debate with someone this week.

All of the drop pitman arms that I've seen are shorter than stock arms. A small difference in arm length causes a significant difference in turning response at the wheels. Also, the shorter arm, usually won't allow you to turn the wheel enough to get to the wheel stops on the axle; the steering box runs out of turns. Stock arms, normally, get to the wheel stops before the steering box runs out of turns.

I've run a lot of different length and drop arms to get to what works just right on my Scrambler. My setup is far from stock for a CJ. I currently am using a modified arm from an Astro mini-van; it's totally flat, shorter than stock, running to a Parts Mike high steer arm on the right (flat top) knuckle. This is on a Waggy Dana 44. The tie rod is on top of the arms, in the stock Waggy location.

[TJbino4]

I heard that you can replace the steering column with an old s10 column. But I dont know if there is an validity to that statement, just something that I have heard before

[KSToyz]

Originally Posted by John N

I'm still betting on the steering shaft. I know the aftermarket ones are expensive, but they are worth it (to me anyway). I see you have 4" spring lift and 3" body lift; that means your stock steering shaft has been extended, causing less engagement of the stock slip joint. Replace it. Also, part of the less responsive issue could relate to a drop pitman arm. Consider a tie rod flip, if this could be part of the issue.

Well John once I started looking more at the form as well as the function I discovered that the PO had done an incredible hack job on the extension via a piece of pipe....really bad job. So if it was the problem or not it is now laying in the scrap heap and a new Flaming River shaft will be here today. It may not be the problem but it was indeed a problem that needed attention. I do think that here was some additional play in the old shaft as well. I'll try and post an update after the install tonight.

Thanks for the suggestions and if this doesn't fix it I'll be looking at the pitman arm and the angles etc.

[jpfaris]

Originally Posted by John N

All of the drop pitman arms that I've seen are shorter than stock arms..

That explains it, my experience with DPA's has been just the opposite. Same length.

[KSToyz]

Well I installed a Flaming River steering shaft last night and it appears to have corrected about 75-80% of the issues I was having. I really like the way the shaft was made and the heft of it alone was a good feeling.

Thanks for all the input and I'll continue to look for the rest of the issue......need to get the anglometer and look at that potential issue next.

[Oily]

Originally Posted by KSToyz

John,
I simply can't tell where the play is. I was watching it as I had my wife slowly turn the wheel last night and I'm simply not sure. Should I do this with the motor running since it is a power steering setup?

Glad the steering shaft helped somewhat.
I will assume that you watched the steering box to be sure it's mounting bolts are still tight, that it does not move/flex at all.
The one thing I have not seen mentioned is wheel bearings. Loose bearings will cause steering wander. You will need to jack up the Jeep to check them.

[KSToyz]

Oily,

The steering gear bracket is brand new (price tag is still on the darned thing) and all bolts were tight. In fact one of the first things I did was jack it up and check for movement in the front end...all was tight there. In fact it looks as if most or all of the bushings etc are brand new or very close to new.

[John N]

Originally Posted by KSToyz

Oily,

The steering gear bracket is brand new (price tag is still on the darned thing) and all bolts were tight. In fact one of the first things I did was jack it up and check for movement in the front end...all was tight there. In fact it looks as if most or all of the bushings etc are brand new or very close to new.

Don't jack it up to do this check. You need the resistance to find the issues.

That said, I'm glad the new shaft helped.

[Oily]

Originally Posted by KSToyz

Oily,
....... bolts were tight.

Were being the operative word. Mine were tight also, at first. Another look does not hurt.
What John N said. Jack it up for a wheel bearing evaluation.
EDIT
I also replaced my steering box. Great at first but....I wondered what now? Steering box mounting bolts.