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-   -   SOA or SUA (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/soa-sua-1070968/)

AmazingBlu 07-17-2010 08:22 AM

SOA or SUA
 
I would like to see who keeps em tucked under and who goes over the top. Post pictures and the reasons why you decided to go that route. I have noticed more and more people opting for SOA. I had thought this greatly reduced driveability but maybe I am wrong in my assumption. Id love to hear what you guys think.

Pacfanweb 07-17-2010 09:33 AM

I stayed with SUA for mine. After doing a ton of research, two things I concluded about the SOA: One, I don't need that much lift. Two, it's not really worth the effort.

There are a lot of things that go into doing an SOA correctly. As I researched it, I decided it just wasn't worth it.....now, if you want to run 38's, it might well be. A CJ with tires that big won't be all that drivable, anyway. At least, not what I call "drivable" Of the SOA's I've seen, I've yet to see one that drives as good as it did while SUA.

Really depends on what you plan to do with the Jeep. It it's off road only, SOA might be the best thing to do.

HighFive 07-17-2010 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmazingBlu (Post 9802519)
I would like to see who keeps em tucked under and who goes over the top. Post pictures and the reasons why you decided to go that route. I have noticed more and more people opting for SOA. I had thought this greatly reduced driveability but maybe I am wrong in my assumption. Id love to hear what you guys think.

It does'nt reduce driveability at all as long as you do it right. The biggest thing is making sure your castor is right. Not bragging but my cj drive's just as good as it did with 31's and SUA. I can cruise at 60-70 all day without ****ting my pants. SOA was cheaper for us to do too.[/

KMD 07-17-2010 10:57 AM

If you can do all the work yourself with out Bubbaing it soa is the way to go. If not better go sua.
I have been driving mine to work every other week for 6 weeks now, 55 miles each way all highway cruising at 60 - 75 mph sometimes up to 90(stupid rubicon thought he was bad) SOA with 33s.
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3...torpass014.jpg
When it still had the 31s
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8...torpass178.jpg
Pic of the traction bar I built to combat the axle wrap and body squat.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs605...._2944431_n.jpg
Pic when I first did it with the tweaked shackles,since repaired.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8136/dsc0031lh.jpg
Pic after installing the shock hoops and bilstein 5125 12"travel shocks
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs605...._8387968_n.jpg

Now my steering is not 100% done just running a drop pitman arm but it works. I plan on going high steer but want to swap out to a disc brake front axle so I am not going to engineer the steering till there are disc brakes in the front. I have no bump steer and it is stable however I am lacking in turn radius do to the steering links not being parallel.

KMD 07-17-2010 11:01 AM

Also keep in mind I have about $350 in dive line work done which so far has been the most expensive part other than the bad azz welder I bought. Plus I am looking at another $200 in steering mods once the disc brakes are in place. Anyone have a NT disc brake dana 30 layin around, Just need the knuckles?

Happy Joe 07-17-2010 11:25 AM

I have been driving SOA for a very long time;
If done correctly and driven with care there is little downside (some increased nose dive under hard braking, some increased body roll in corners, both due to the higher CG).
That said this is not a mod for the street; (mall crawlers take note) the only valid reason to do this is for off road performance. It should probably not be considered until after the vehicle has been re-geared and selectable lockers are installed. Sway bar disconnects for use off road are highly recommended. Longer shocks are necessary as are modded shock mounts; or you will see little to no benefit from SOA.
The advent of the newer flexible springs from a few companies like RE really reduces the need for SOA off road and is the way to go for moderate+ wheeling, IMO.

SOA with flat springs will keep the CG manageable (around 5 to 5.5 inches of lift) but requires a torque arm to keep the springs alive.
SOA with high arched springs is a definite DON'T; there is no reason to consider it and the vehicle will almost certainly become unsafe to drive due to excessively high CG and the probably poor workmanship standards of people who would try it without thinking it through. (SOA is done for flexibility high arched springs are rarely flexible; so nothing is gained except excessive height).

With 33 inch tires you will hit the body and damage both sheet metal and tires when flexed out. Larger tires, of course, will do the same. (TJ rear flair mod recommended).

For tires above 33s the stock brakes need an upgrade (both for SOA and SUA).

Enjoy!

crzdmnky 07-17-2010 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r08ert209cali (Post 9803047)
Also keep in mind I have about $350 in dive line work done which so far has been the most expensive part other than the bad azz welder I bought. Plus I am looking at another $200 in steering mods once the disc brakes are in place. Anyone have a NT disc brake dana 30 layin around, Just need the knuckles?

I have some...

RangerRick 07-17-2010 11:44 AM

Yet another take on the debate: Hybrid SOA-SUA....
 
Not to throw a wrench into your conventional logic debate.... But here's what I've done and been very happy with the outcome:
I have the best of both worlds on my 85 CJ-7, SOA with cross-over hi-steer and flat pitman arm conversion up front on 2 1/2" lift rear CJ heavy duty military wrap springs and quick-discos for the swaybar offering mad flex and stability. I have a #9000 winch up front with V8 engine under the hood and she sits totally level. The rear is SUA with 4 1/2" lift extra long seven leaf packs and extended length shocks in the rear. I kept the rear SUA to combat axle wrap and squat. My CJ is very stable on side hills or off camber situations and quick street maneuvers while still flexing almost as good as a coil spring conversion, especially up front. I didn't want to limit my flex by using an anti-wrap bar in the rear since this is a side-effect of the extra "link". With 450 horses, SOA axle wrap and squat in the rear would have been a major problem unless I ran dump-truck springs with no flex. All this was virtually eliminated by keeping SUA out back and the ride quality is amazing.

RangerRick

mmerlina 07-17-2010 01:17 PM

I weighed SOA vs SUA for months when I was trying to figure out what to do. The only real reason I went to SUA was because a guy in my club was taking off his 4.5" Rubicon Express lift that was less than a year old to put arms on.. so he sold it to me at a real good price.

Otherwise, I have no idea what I would have done. Your topic is the age old question! :)

82JeepCJ7 07-17-2010 08:55 PM

My CJ7 has been SOA since '94. I have ridden in many SUA Jeeps that ride like a buck board wagon. Mine rides smooth, does not lean in corners like you would think, and has zero bad habits (the only one was cured with a torque arm like above). The ground clearance is awesome. I relocated all my shocks to the axle tube instead of the spring plate. I retained the front anti-sway bar, but with custom length quick disconnects. After seeing mine perform offroad, I have had two of my friends bring their Jeeps to my place to remove the SUA lift and replace the springs with some YJs and do a spring over. They have all been happy with the results.

Check out the ground clearance under the rear axle in this pic. Nothing to get hung up on.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs219...._6448421_n.jpg

NoobieJeeper 08-10-2011 04:03 PM

I can anyone show there build thread for the soa. Im building a 1954 cj3b and im stuck on keeping it sua or soa and I know that none of these jeeps are as old as mine, but if anyone could help me it would be very much apperciated.

jeepwhore 08-10-2011 05:44 PM

SOA is hard to do in a short wheel base jeep like a CJ5, CJ3b etc. and still have a drive shaft longer then 8 inches. IMO, I'd stick with SUA.

82JeepCJ7 08-11-2011 07:44 AM

Doing a SOA on a 3B using newer springs would increase the ride quality quite a bit. You could play with spring packs to get a lower lift as well as attachment points for the springs. I have seen several SOA MB, CJ2A, etc and if anything the rear driveline is longer, not shorter. The angle of the rear drive shaft is steeper, but the use of a CV shaft helps with that. Chances are, since its a 3B (80" wheel base) you won't be driving it down the freeway at 80mph anyway.

toyotajeep44 08-11-2011 07:55 AM

It really is an age old argument and at the end of the day, most go back to their respective camps unchanged.

I have never been a fan of SPUA due to ground clearance. But you do get into height pretty easily with SPOA. My current CJ-5 is SPOA. It rides better, drives better etc. than my 3" Rancho lifted stocker other Jeep did.

But, I drive it like a built rig. It has wider axles and tires and I treat it accordingly.

I would imagine a NT 60 Willys with a SPOA and some 31's could be terrifying.

Properly set-up, a SPOA is not a bad thing. I did all the work myself, but by the time I did high-steer etc. it was not cheap.

I am building another CJ-5, and it is getting SPOA as well.

FWIW-ROB

CSP 08-11-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacfanweb (Post 9802742)
Of the SOA's I've seen, I've yet to see one that drives as good as it did while SUA.

Mine, on 37s is a pleasure to drive. I'm more inclined to drive it around town or on the highway than when it was stock or on 33's with approx. 3" of SUA lift.

Granted, my wheelbase is 12" longer than stock (96" now on a CJ5) and the axles are wider, but it wasn't automatic after going spring over.

Originally, it had some really bad death wobble entering any turn at 30-45mph. My tires tend to flat spot when sitting and were not balanced. I had shocks on it that were incorrectly valved as well. Some tuning was needed for street use tire pressure and toe-in also needed experimenting with. All of them combined lead to what really was dangerous on the road.

Once all these things were ironed out (other than the flat spotting which goes away quickly if the air temp is above 50) it drives like a dream. The stability is better, the ride is more forgiving, and all the parts are tuned to work together.

This is what I call a well done spring over. It's a lot more than welding spring perches on top of the axle tubes and throwing on a drop pitman arm.

It sure wasn't cheap and no money was paid for labor of any kind.


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