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Unread 01-27-2010, 10:05 PM   #1
sega2010
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1997 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Penfield, PA
Posts: 1,128
slow slow slow cj2a willys build

Been "working" on this jeep for years. Although I wouldn't really call it working on it cause I really didn't do much to it so far.
So far I've only gotten the body off and the engine, tranny, and t-case off the frame. Bought an early 70's CJ-5 that I'm gonna use the entire drivetrain out of it including the 304 v8.
The jeep has been in my family for decades. My grandfather got it for my dad when he was 12 years old and it was used up until probably 12 years ago when my grandpa parked it in the barn and where it sat until I started getting into this addiction of offroading. So it became my little project.
I'll post pics of what I've got so far in the next couple days.

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1997 Cherokee: Sold.
1999 Cherokee: Sold.
1946 cj2a Willys: rebuilding!
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Unread 01-28-2010, 04:47 AM   #2
kercher
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1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hiram, OH
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sounds like a good project.

my '48 has only been on jackstands for 3 months and it feels like forever.

you building a new frame or boxing the old one?
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Unread 02-11-2010, 09:19 AM   #3
sega2010
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alright finally got pictures. its in my dads garage which is an absolute mess. but here it is.

here's the body that is filled with all my dads junk cause its been sitting for a few months now.



empty frame sitting there waiting to be taken care of.


engine tranny transfer case sitting on the floor.


and here's the 350 i was gonna use but then decided to trade it for a 304 and another 300 dollors for an entire cj5.


ill get pictures of the other jeep when i get more time and when it gets down to the garage.
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1997 Cherokee: Sold.
1999 Cherokee: Sold.
1946 cj2a Willys: rebuilding!
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Unread 02-11-2010, 05:55 PM   #4
sega2010
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just something i wanted to add. I'm gonna be heading to wyotech for school starting at the end of september and im hoping to get enough funds up to take it down with me as a graded project. so if that happens this project should really take off.
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1997 Cherokee: Sold.
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Unread 02-11-2010, 07:56 PM   #5
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,204
The way to move ANY project forward, no matter how slow, is to simply put the hours into it.

If you sit there despondent for a while, then you will start to see this or that...
Get yourself a 'White Board' and break the project up into small bites, and wack away at one of those 'Bites' until it's done...

Sanding Frame,

Pretty soon you will be able to strike through that line.
Leave the strike throughs on the board so you can SEE your progress!

Even if you have to sandblast the entire frame with a siphon/bucket sander and make a HUGE mess, you WILL be making progress!

Next Line...

COATING FRAME
Since you should have sprayed primer or rust preventative on the freshly cleaned spots on the frame as you quit each night, you already have a primer coat down,
Time for a good rust proofing layer of something or another!

Then strike through that line but leave it on the board!

Make sure you use the other side of the board for notes to yourself, what you need to pick up, broken tools you need to exchange, phone number of pizza/beer delivery ,

Get your friends involved!
BRAG ON EVERYTHING THEY DO!
They ARE going to do things half-azzed, and break stuff, but all the work they do is stuff you DO NOT have to do.
Put them cleaning off the gunk/crud, they can't screw that up too much,
Sanding sheet metal, wire brushing things you can't sand blast, ect.
No matter what they do, BRAG ON IT and they WILL come back and help some more.

I have 'Mentor' kids that help around here.
They aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but they DO work and it makes them feel good about themselves!

If you have quesitons about something 'ASK HERE!' that's what the forum is for, and you won't find any more dedicated Jeep junkys around!

I use little pieces of masking tape when I see something that needs to be fixed/done and stick them to the vehicle.
This lets me know EXACTLY where to start when I come back in, and I don't forget to tighten things up, add gear lube, bleed brakes, ect. that way!

If you try and do everything at once, you won't get anything done. You MUST break it down into 'Doable' jobs...
Wheel bearings & seals, then hang suspension, then
Front brakes, then master cylinder, then rear brakes,
Then service the diffs, ect.
Small bites you can do in one evening or one day and QUIT when you are done with one...
Don't burn yourself out on the job.
Dedicated about 3 hours at a time, take a break, then finish if you are going to spend the day working...
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Unread 02-11-2010, 09:18 PM   #6
sega2010
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thanks for the tips man. yeah i know these guys on this forum are really dedicated to jeeps and i am too. im just getting into the hobby but im loving it. like i explained in the first post this jeep has been in the family for years so i want to do it right and make it awesome. my only issue is money. im only 17 so im very limited on that. but it will get there someday. once again though thanks for the tips and ill try to keep this as updated as much i can.
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1997 Cherokee: Sold.
1999 Cherokee: Sold.
1946 cj2a Willys: rebuilding!
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Unread 02-11-2010, 10:09 PM   #7
jeepdaddy2000
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As stated above, patience is the key. Along that line, don't get overfocused on the new drivetrain installation. Realize the project at completion and fix any shortcomings now while it is disassembled. Such things as a dual MC and upgraded brakes, steering upgrades, knuckle rebuilds, spring bushings, clutch linkages, etc.... all are much easier to do now, rather than after you get the Jeep reassembled. Also, don't forget to test fit such things as the hood and firewall clearance since the cramped engine compartment can be an issue with the engine. One other thing, a digital cameera is your friend. Take pictures of everything. This will greatly aid in the reassembly process.
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Unread 02-12-2010, 09:32 AM   #8
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
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JeepDaddy hit on a BIG ONE!
In a slow reconstruction, you can forget where things are supposed to go or how they are supposed to be installed!

Digital camera is a VERY big thing, and I use it A LOT when I'm 'Exploring' something!
My first Q-track case was a FINE example of how a digital camera saved my butt!

Carb rebuilding is another example of how a camera can get all those linkages back in correctly!
-------------------------------------------

One thing I think all CJ owners can agree on is the biggest problem we have is RUST!

Wire brushes are FAST for taking rust off, but they don't get the rust down in the pits of the metal out, and that leaves rust to forum bubbles and blisters on EVERYTHING after you are done.

There are lots of coatings to seal in the rust.
All that does is cut the oxygen off to the rust, and slows it down, but it still marches on under the coatings.

All you have done is MINIMIZE the rust, not ELIMINATED it.
On top of that, it's now under a coating where you can't see what it's doing!

For me, The best way I've found to get rid of rust is to first WIRE BRUSH the surface rust off.
This is DIRTY WORK, but it saves a BUNCH OF TIME over other methods.

Then I go back with one of two things to ELIMINATE the rust as much as I can...

One is sand blasting.
Even a very small air compressor will allow you to use a 'Bucket Blaster'.
A bucket full of blasting sand, and an air powered siphon gun that sucks up the sand and projects it against your intended victim.

Sand blasters will get into corners, nooks & crannies you can't reach with anything else.

Bucket blasters are about $20 to $100 depending on how many 'Extras' you buy with the gun...

This is a good place to get sand blasting equipment,
LINK: TP Tools & Equipment

Even Duplicolor has a bucket blaster for about $45, and you can get sand tips for it from the above link...



You see these on the 'Truck Tool Sales', Harbor Freight and on E-bay all the time for cheap, usually you can pick one up for about $25 if you shop around.

You simply move your bucket to where you are working and blast away!
Sand is available from your local CONCRETE store for about $10 for 100 pound bags, and if you keep it dry, and screen out the chunks, you CAN reuse it until it gets wet...
Then it won't flow through the gun anymore.

I use these same guns to spray things like 'Herculiner' and other coatings that are just impossible to get through or out of regular spray guns.

Use the same gun to clean, then spray the bed liner or frame coating through that gun...

It's worth the $20 for the gun for the convenience!
Your coating goes MUCH farther, so you save money there,
It takes 10% of the time to get the coats on the vehicle, so you save TIME there,
And you get a MUCH more even, better looking job, and that is worth a bunch!

If you are spraying something like Herculiner with the rubber particles stirred up in it,
You may want to use an Shutz Undercoating gun.
Shutz is a brand name of cheap, cast aluminum spray guns, and the undercoating gun from Shutz works GREAT with Herculiner with the granules in it.

I think I paid $13 a piece for the last batch of guns I purchased, And they clean out MUCH better than the sand blasting guns.
----------------------------

The SECOND thing you can do to kill rust is a RUST KILLER primer...
Once you have removed all the surface rust you can get at,
Use a Rust Killer,
I find this one to work REALLY WELL...



Wire brush in a rotary tool, I did HALF of this wheel with two coats and this is how it turned out,



Paint & Primers can go on right over the rust killer!

--------------------------------------------------

YOU DO NOT NEED A LARGE COMPRESSOR!

Small compressor and EXTRA LARGE TANK will do a LOT of work!
Most people think you need a Huge Volume compressor that will keep up with tools as they work. YOU DO NOT.

Plumb in a larger tank between compressor and your work hose, and you will be able to get a lot of work done with a smaller compressor.
RESERVE VOLUME UNDER PRESSURE is the key to making a small/inexpensive compressor do a lot of work!

I used a small 3/4 horse Sears compressor with 100 pound propane tank as reserve for many 'Field' operations down through the years, everything from the race track to doing peoples tubs with sand blaster and Herculiner, and everything in between.
All I needed was a reasonable size 110 volt supply cord and I was off to the races.

If your wallet is fat, get as much compressor as you can afford for the shop,
But if you are 'Mobile', nothing beats a compressor you can carry around with one hand and a large storage tank!

-----------------------------------------

Some warnings here,
Silica Blasting Sand is HARD on your eyes, lungs, hands.
Get yourself some good safety glasses, a cheap welding hood with clear lenses in the front, and some heavy gloves.
(Cheap welding gloves work fine)
I find the cheap hoods at pawn shops for $10 to $15 all the time...

DON'T FORGET THE DIRT FILTERS FOR YOUR FACE!
You don't want those sharp little particles in your lungs!
-----------------------------

If you want to polish up chrome, work on plastic or aluminum,
Get yourself some WALNUT SHELL BLASTING MEDIA.
This stuff WILL NOT erode away plastic or chrome or eat into aluminum, and things will SHINE you though were junk a long time ago!

Something like an old metal kitchen colander is great for small parts like bolts, nuts, ect.
You can blast in the basket and clean things up without loosing them or blasting holes in your fingers/gloves.

I've got a CJ-2A going through the same process you are doing right now, and the sand blaster is my most used tool during tear down and clean up stages.
It's messy, but it saves SO MUCH TIME and gets things REALLY clean!
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Unread 02-12-2010, 04:21 PM   #9
sega2010
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thank you so much for all the information. that rust off stuff seems like its really convenient. how much is it, where can you get it, and does it come in bigger bottles? i might have to invest in a sandblaster i know those do work great. or maybe my dad has one laying around somewhere? ha i dont know.
one question i have though. these 2a's have the spots that the frame is enclosed, how is it you get the rust out of there and coat it with something? just sand blast it too?
once again thank you so much. glad to see you guys are willing ot help a rookie like me so much. :]
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1997 Cherokee: Sold.
1999 Cherokee: Sold.
1946 cj2a Willys: rebuilding!
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Unread 02-12-2010, 05:54 PM   #10
kercher
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i want to hear more about that rust remover. how long do you let it sit on, how long in between coats. any issues with it. that looks like it'll be great from my 48.
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Unread 02-12-2010, 06:23 PM   #11
JeepHammer
Running On Empty...
1973 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West Indiana
Posts: 10,204
I get the Permatex brand at the local paint store, NAPA carries a private label of the same stuff, and it's not expensive at all, I think mine was about $6 for a pint.

Between 20 minutes and an hour between coats,
I use a sponge foam brush to apply, mostly because they are dirt cheap (10 for $1 at the local paint store on sale) so they are disposable without having to clean.

Dry time depends on if you have direct sun light and the humidity. Seems to dry faster in high humidity, which is good seeing as I live in (Humid) Indiana...
Direct sun light seems to dry it VERY fast, as little as 10 minutes before it's no longer tacky, but I don't work that fast, so I always wait between 20-30 minutes at the fastest.

The one thing you should NEVER do is dip the brush in the bottle!
Rust on the brush will activate the entire bottle, and it will be rock hard when you go to use it again!

I pour some out in a spray can (Rattle can) Top and use that for the 'Small Batch' dispenser.
Can lids work pretty good too.
Tuna cans for the 'Large' jobs...
Again, all disposable so you don't have to clean anything when you are done.

The bottle says it can be sanded, painted or primed over, and I've not seen anything to contradict the container yet...
Herculiner LOVES this stuff as a primer, which is good for me since that's what I use the most of for 'Paint'.
POR 15 seems to like it real well too...

Rattle can paint will wrinkle on it if you don't let it dry overnight sometimes, but not every brand does, and I don't know the differences between one rattle can paint and another.
Rustolum seems to like it pretty well, just makes sure the rust killer has a 'Hard Coat' before you spray on.
---------------------------------------------

Boxed parts of the frame are ALWAYS a challenge.
I have a tendency to drill holes in things and use wire brushes and/or sand blasting to remove scale,
Then I use 'Rust Killer' in the Shutz guns or cheap sand blasting guns.
It's wasteful, but it gets the job done.

The only way to clean EVERYTHING is a chemical dip, and that is EXPENSIVE, plus you have to wash everything out with metal prep before anything will stick after you have one dipped.
The use a 'Rust Preventative' on the bare metal right away, or everything would rust in minutes after it comes out of the dip...
And you have to clean that rust preventative off before you can get ANYTHING to stick correctly.

I spray metal cleaner/prep into boxed places with a 'Parts Washing' wand and then coat with rust killer,
Then usually some kind of heavy rust preventative...
(POR 15 or something like it).
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Unread 02-12-2010, 06:54 PM   #12
sega2010
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so how efficient is this stuff? like how far does each bottle get you? say if i was to use it on my frame completely how many bottles would i need. rough estimate.
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1999 Cherokee: Sold.
1946 cj2a Willys: rebuilding!
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Unread 11-09-2010, 01:43 PM   #13
limeking
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Posts: 441
This is old, but why would you put that under POR 15? POR stands for Paint Over Rust. It does the same thing.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 08:59 PM   #14
sega2010
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Well this build is about to pick up again. The jeep has been taken out of my dad's cluttered garage and taken to my brother's garage. Already got the motor back in the frame with new motor mounts and the frame is painted. Have a lot of work ahead of us but we have a goal for christmas to get it together and running. Reason being to surprise my grandfather cause he said he'd never see it run again. After we surprise him its gonna slowly get done right. We're just doing the main things right now and smaller things later on. Going with a pretty original build now. Sticking with the 4cyl and leaving it stock height. I'll start taking pictures of our progress from here on.
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1997 Cherokee: Sold.
1999 Cherokee: Sold.
1946 cj2a Willys: rebuilding!
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