Shake down run #2 - JeepForum.com
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 28 Old 09-18-2017, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
stripperguy
Registered User
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Schenectady
Posts: 530
Shake down run #2

Went wheeling with a few guys yesterday...2 locked Cherokees on 35's, a Rubicon TJ with 5:13's on 35's, and me, a 40 year old CJ5 on 35's.



Could have used some deeper gearing, my 4:56's were just a touch too tall for the terrain.
And the Weber that I lovingly tuned to near perfection? Well, it was OK on the way uphill, but suffered badly on the way down. Making me think about fuel injection.

All was going well until I came to a particularly tall ledge. On my third attempt at it, we all heard that fatal "boom, crunch". SIL peeked underneath and said it wasn't my driveshafts. Phew!.
But it was definitely the end of the climbing for me, I had ripped off the shackle mount for my traction bar. So we left the poor little thing on the trail, and picked it up on the way back down. BTW, it's not this ledge, but one that was about twice as tall. Ledge below was easily crept up.



To limp back out, I ran my winch line over my bumper, under my skid plate, and used a clevis to hold the shackle for the traction bar in place. Also noticed that I had torn off a lower shock mount on the right rear. Tied that up with a strap and creeped my way back down.

Here's a photo of the clevis and ripped off shackle mount.



So, lessons learned:

1. manual transmission is a killer on that sort of terrain
2. traction bar needs really beefy mounts
3. rear shock mounts need to be relocated for more protection
4. Weber is not happy being tossed around like a sneaker in a dryer!

All in all, still a fun day of wheeling, and just another step to making my little CJ more capable and reliable.


1977 CJ5 is a CJ build ever really done?
2002 TJ gone
2005 TJ also gone
2005 LJ insurance wreck
stripperguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 05:32 AM
schardein
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Success
Posts: 157
Nice CJ!

I run 4.56s w/ 35s in my Jeep, and get the off road performance I want with 4:1 gears in the transfer case. Keep the drivability of 4.56s on the road (with overdrive 3550 trans) and still good crawling off road. Best of both worlds.

I ran Mopar fuel injection for almost 20 years and really liked it. Actually I swapped in the whole 4.0 using components from the Mopar kit. I swapped to a Vortec motor in my -7, the 4.0 will be going in a CJ-5 I am working on.

I have the rear u-bolt skid plates, and the lower shock attaches to that with a stud. I've replaced them several times, it is a weak link due to location. I also plan to move them to a more protected spot, probably higher up on the axle tube, and then raise the top mount accordingly. I have a 1" body lift, so there is a little room to do that.

Not sure about your comment on manual trans? Are you saying you don't like it? Everyone is running autos these days, I still prefer my manual.

Also, why the rear traction bar? Are you running YJ springs SOA?

1983 CJ7, 5.3, NV3550, D300 4:1, Fr D44 Detroit, Rr D44 OX, 4.56, 35" SSTs on beadlocks
schardein is offline  
post #3 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
stripperguy
Registered User
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Schenectady
Posts: 530
Yeah, I have a SOA with YJ springs, great stuff, droop, articulation and a supple ride... but without that traction bar I'm not going anywhere. Springs would wrap up instantly and likely cause a broken pinion or driveshaft at the least.
My rear M20 is a narrow track, thinking about some wheel spacers to allow room for outboarding my shocks to the wheel wells. i have one piece Moser shafts and don't want to spend the money for WT shafts, and I don't want to redo al the trussing and brackets on the housing and tubes.

If I wasn't so cheap, I would spring for some EFI in a minute. Maybe I can swap in a 4.0 intake with its EFI and computer. SIL was making it sound easy and cheap. My 4.2 is built and just needs a little help on the fueling for really rough, highly tilted stuff.
A 4:1 kit for the D300 sounds like the best solution for crawling. I really like the on road gearing and performance (T5, 4:56, 35's) the way it is. But in big rocks and ledges, it's a lot of work. Watching the other guys with their autos makes it seem too easy!! I do love the manual trans, it's pefrect for most, but not all, situations.

Lastly, I love the nimble wheelbase, but some stuff is just not possible in a stubby CJ5. Not that I would ever give it up, I've been driving and wheeling a CJ5 since 1986!!

1977 CJ5 is a CJ build ever really done?
2002 TJ gone
2005 TJ also gone
2005 LJ insurance wreck
stripperguy is offline  
 
post #4 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 09:46 AM
TIPPEDITOVER
In the Lab
 
TIPPEDITOVER's Avatar
1978 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Puyallup
Posts: 2,221
I'm gonna share something I learned about 4:1 low range gearing in a transfer case. Seems awesome, right? Super low gearing. You will love it on the really nasty stuff that needs to be slowly and carefully crawled over. You'll hate it about 98% of the rest of the time. You'll find 4:1 low range way to slow for running normal trails and be in high range all the time just so you can get somewhere.

Shaun

1978 CJ5 to CJ6 - Build in progress......


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TIPPEDITOVER is offline  
post #5 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 10:24 AM
Fourtrail
Registered User
1974 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
Lastly, I love the nimble wheelbase, but some stuff is just not possible in a stubby CJ5. Not that I would ever give it up, I've been driving and wheeling a CJ5 since 1986!!
And that is why I added a CJ-6 to the stable for wheeling. The correct door opening and wheelbase for when you need it.

I will 2nd a 4:1 kit isn't all it is cracked up to be. Reverse will never be the speed you need, either way to slow or way too fast. Dad wheels a T-4, Dana 300 4.88's and 35's and it seems good for most all situations, in the rocks, regular trails and hill climbs. Most of his time is spent in 2nd or 3rd, only needing 1st in the big rocks.

Any better pictures of the before with your traction bar? After almost 10 years, I finally broke my crossmember loose from the frame, but I think that is more from flexing than the traction bar keeping axle wrap in check.

80 CJ-5, 74 CJ-6, 56 CJ-5
Fourtrail is offline  
post #6 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 10:42 AM
uptillnow
Senior Member
 
uptillnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fountain Valley
Posts: 757
"And the Weber that I lovingly tuned to near perfection? Well, it was OK on the way uphill, but suffered badly on the way down. Making me think about fuel injection."


On your Weber, try 19mm float height with 1.5mm "needle travel".


This seems to make things a little more tolerable bouncing around on trails at relatively low RPM's


UTN


EDIT: or you could use a 2.50mm needle and seat then limit the needle travel to 1.0mm, making it a "micro switch".
uptillnow is online now  
post #7 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
stripperguy
Registered User
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Schenectady
Posts: 530
This is the best one that I have...taken before I had to rotate the M20 up by 6 degrees. So the shackle plates are a bit longer, otherwise it's as it was before those ledges. It's hard to see, but I welded the shackle mount to the top side of the crossmember. Shackle mount seems unmolested, as is the crossmember. But there seems to have been too little weld and too little penetration. I'll need to borrow my SIL's 220 MIG and burn those in much better.




As far as the Weber, while I was crawling underneath, I noticed that I had (have) a fuel line leak between the flexible line from the tank and the hard line along the frame. This is the inlet side...those cam action fuel pumps don't really like to suck air. That could be most of the problem.
But for sure, I'll look at my float level. I need some time to absorb the "needle travel" advice.
uptillnow likes this.

1977 CJ5 is a CJ build ever really done?
2002 TJ gone
2005 TJ also gone
2005 LJ insurance wreck
stripperguy is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 12:50 PM
Fourtrail
Registered User
1974 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,980
Just me, but I would weld the shackle mount on the horizontal and not the vertical. Weld should be stronger in tension than in shear Of course that means either lengthening the traction bar or moving the cross member. But that is only my semi educated suggestion and may be way off base.

80 CJ-5, 74 CJ-6, 56 CJ-5
Fourtrail is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 09:16 PM
schardein
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Success
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
Yeah, I have a SOA with YJ springs, great stuff, droop, articulation and a supple ride... but without that traction bar I'm not going anywhere. Springs would wrap up instantly and likely cause a broken pinion or driveshaft at the least.
My rear M20 is a narrow track, thinking about some wheel spacers to allow room for outboarding my shocks to the wheel wells. i have one piece Moser shafts and don't want to spend the money for WT shafts, and I don't want to redo al the trussing and brackets on the housing and tubes.

If I wasn't so cheap, I would spring for some EFI in a minute. Maybe I can swap in a 4.0 intake with its EFI and computer. SIL was making it sound easy and cheap. My 4.2 is built and just needs a little help on the fueling for really rough, highly tilted stuff.
A 4:1 kit for the D300 sounds like the best solution for crawling. I really like the on road gearing and performance (T5, 4:56, 35's) the way it is. But in big rocks and ledges, it's a lot of work. Watching the other guys with their autos makes it seem too easy!! I do love the manual trans, it's pefrect for most, but not all, situations.

Lastly, I love the nimble wheelbase, but some stuff is just not possible in a stubby CJ5. Not that I would ever give it up, I've been driving and wheeling a CJ5 since 1986!!
I'm surprised some on here don't like the 4:1. I agree that a 5-speed (T5 and 3550 have similar gearing), 4.56 and 35s is a great combination, does well on and off road, but the 4:1 is what really makes it shine off road. If it's to low, that's what 2nd-3rd-4th-5th gears are for? My experience with 4:1 (11 years now) is if you need to go faster than 5th in low, maybe you should be in high range anyway?? and it's only a t-case shifter away. An option would be to run a granny gear T18. I've done that for about 10 years, and imo it was a worse compromise than the 4:1. Sometimes 1st gear is to low, 2nd is to high, and if you make your ring and pinion low enough to make 2nd gear usable as first gear on the street, you start to limit your top end on the highway (if your rig is truly a dual purpose and care about that).

As for the fuel delivery, I've been sold on fuel injection for a decade. I've ran and tuned Quadrajets, Holleys, and Webers, and won't go back. A possible solution would be to source all the hardware from the junkyard (intake, distributor, fuel pump, coil, computer) and get the harmonic balancer (with teeth to give a signal to the cps) and wiring harness from Hesco. I think they still sell the parts of the mopar kit. That's sort of what I did, but swapped in the whole 4.0. The harness was expensive, but after trying to modify an XJ harness, I saved a bunch of time just buying Hescos. I'm pretty good with wiring but I think it would have taken me several weekends to sort it out.

1983 CJ7, 5.3, NV3550, D300 4:1, Fr D44 Detroit, Rr D44 OX, 4.56, 35" SSTs on beadlocks
schardein is offline  
post #10 of 28 Old 09-19-2017, 10:56 PM
TIPPEDITOVER
In the Lab
 
TIPPEDITOVER's Avatar
1978 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Puyallup
Posts: 2,221
I had 4:1 low range in my D300 for 3 yrs. Trans was an SM420 4 speed, 4.88 gears and 38" TSL's. It worked fine, but I found it to be too low geared for everything but rock crawling. Could never keep up with my group, which should be a major consideration for anyone considering this mod. If you wheel with others and they are always waiting for you to catch up, that's not going to work very well. I feel the stock gearing in the Dana 300 is a perfect balance for most any regular off road situation.

Shaun

1978 CJ5 to CJ6 - Build in progress......


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TIPPEDITOVER is offline  
post #11 of 28 Old 09-20-2017, 05:44 AM
schardein
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Success
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIPPEDITOVER View Post
I had 4:1 low range in my D300 for 3 yrs. Trans was an SM420 4 speed, 4.88 gears and 38" TSL's. It worked fine, but I found it to be too low geared for everything but rock crawling. Could never keep up with my group, which should be a major consideration for anyone considering this mod. If you wheel with others and they are always waiting for you to catch up, that's not going to work very well. I feel the stock gearing in the Dana 300 is a perfect balance for most any regular off road situation.
I could see where the combination of a granny gear 4 speed and a 4:1 transfer would be to much. 1st gear would rarely be usable. But for how my rig is setup, I would never go back to factory transfer gearing.

Not discounting your experience, but there is more to keeping a group together on the trial than just gearing. I've found that everyone driving the new coil spring Jeeps have a different idea of what the ideal speed is for any given trail based on how well their vehicle rides. It's a little faster than my old leaf sprung CJ.

1983 CJ7, 5.3, NV3550, D300 4:1, Fr D44 Detroit, Rr D44 OX, 4.56, 35" SSTs on beadlocks
schardein is offline  
post #12 of 28 Old 09-20-2017, 05:56 AM Thread Starter
stripperguy
Registered User
2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Schenectady
Posts: 530
Lots to think about, guys...thanks to all for your input and direct experience tales. There's no substitute for experience. Every once in a while, I see a D300 with a 4:1 conversion on Craigslist, if I see another, I'll jump on it for sure.
I am sort of retired, but this week and next I'm jammed with rental property repairs and maintenance.
So it'll be a couple weeks before I can get my little CJ back to where it was, or actually, better than it was.

1977 CJ5 is a CJ build ever really done?
2002 TJ gone
2005 TJ also gone
2005 LJ insurance wreck
stripperguy is offline  
post #13 of 28 Old 09-20-2017, 07:39 AM
TIPPEDITOVER
In the Lab
 
TIPPEDITOVER's Avatar
1978 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Puyallup
Posts: 2,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by schardein View Post
I could see where the combination of a granny gear 4 speed and a 4:1 transfer would be to much. 1st gear would rarely be usable. But for how my rig is setup, I would never go back to factory transfer gearing.

Not discounting your experience, but there is more to keeping a group together on the trial than just gearing. I've found that everyone driving the new coil spring Jeeps have a different idea of what the ideal speed is for any given trail based on how well their vehicle rides. It's a little faster than my old leaf sprung CJ.
I pretty much never used 1st gear, except for parking on a very steep hill. Worked great for that. I found myself in 3rd gear for most trail running. Second was way too slow and 4th would lug the engine too much. But 3rd left me with wanting just a bit more speed without taching the engine out. I think people need to hear something more than 4:1 low range is the best thing ever, because it's really not for the average Jeeper. It's a hindrance more than an advantage and will leave you wishing you'd have stuck with the stock low range gearing.

Shaun

1978 CJ5 to CJ6 - Build in progress......


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TIPPEDITOVER is offline  
post #14 of 28 Old 09-20-2017, 08:31 AM
Fourtrail
Registered User
1974 CJ6 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIPPEDITOVER View Post
I pretty much never used 1st gear, except for parking on a very steep hill. Worked great for that. I found myself in 3rd gear for most trail running. Second was way too slow and 4th would lug the engine too much. But 3rd left me with wanting just a bit more speed without taching the engine out. I think people need to hear something more than 4:1 low range is the best thing ever, because it's really not for the average Jeeper. It's a hindrance more than an advantage and will leave you wishing you'd have stuck with the stock low range gearing.
That seemed to be the answer from the guys I wheel with that have 4:1 tcases. There have been times it would be nice and that is why I keep looking for a cheap GM fixed yoke np205 to bolt in behind the range box of my 203.

80 CJ-5, 74 CJ-6, 56 CJ-5
Fourtrail is offline  
post #15 of 28 Old 09-20-2017, 07:03 PM
Mortgage-payer
Registered User
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Fargo
Posts: 1,277
Guy with strippers-

Pretty blue - what color is that?

I call it a distributor, not a dizzy.
Mortgage-payer is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome