Sequential Fuel Injection For AMC V-8... - JeepForum.com

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post #1 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
JeepHammer
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Sequential Fuel Injection For AMC V-8...

Sequential Fuel Injection For AMC V-8...

I'm looking at... Toying with...
The idea of a sequential fuel injection for an AMC V-8 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg...

I've been thinking about doing what I've done in the past with intakes,
Start of with a large single plenum intake with large straight runners to the heads,

Welding bungs in the runners just before they enter the heads for fuel injectors,

And using the throttle body & mass air flow sensor off something common along with the computer/wiring/sensors so all this can come out of a salvaged vehicle.

Between a large plenum and large runners, the runners won't have to be nearly as long of tubes as the 'Equal Length' runners of the performance injection systems...

And bumping up the fuel pressure will take care of the 10-15 Cu.In. extra between most 350 engines and an AMC 360 without having to fork over for a high dollar set of injectors or messing with the mapping in the computer.

This *IN THEORY* should make a HUGE difference between carbs, and it should be a huge jump up from throttle body injection...

Any ideas?

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post #2 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 03:58 PM
DonEBeasley
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Well I am in waaay over my head here but I will give it a try.

I run a Edelbrock MFI intake (don't ask how I got it) without their system. I then got a DFI GenVII harness and system, and their dual sync distributor and had it installed. I am running what you want to build.

Seems to me all of the parts except the dist. are laying around and you just have to have the time and skill to put it together. You should be able to modify most harnesses to fit.

Had Edelbrock not come out with the intake, I was in the process of having one made. Timing just worked out.

Probably not much help but may be some useful info in there.

BTW it is on a 401

I had a TBI system before this and the 2 injectors could not keep up with a 401.
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post #3 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 04:29 PM
gmakra
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Jeephammer.
What are your plans for the ignition a waste spark setup?

Rough calcs for injector size 24 LBS per hour that should five you about 80% duty cycle.

Are you looking at a Chevy 5.7 to be a donnor?
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post #4 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 05:11 PM
86cj74.2L
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If you go the Chevy route tunercat has good software for disabling certain functions in the PCM. As well as fuel and ignition mapping.

Also depending on if you have a wide band A/F recorder. Some have a way to automatically alter your fuel maps based on the sensor readings.
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 06:07 PM
Jon In Tucson
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JH,
Look on the Binder planet forums for Injection Tech heading. BillUSN-1 is the moderator, and is done all kinds of MPI with IH 392's. Using salvage yard parts, also. Tons of info... God bless
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post #6 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonEBeasley View Post
Well I am in waaay over my head here but I will give it a try.

I run a Edelbrock MFI intake (don't ask how I got it) without their system. I then got a DFI GenVII harness and system, and their dual sync distributor and had it installed. I am running what you want to build.

Seems to me all of the parts except the dist. are laying around and you just have to have the time and skill to put it together. You should be able to modify most harnesses to fit.

Had Edelbrock not come out with the intake, I was in the process of having one made. Timing just worked out.

Probably not much help but may be some useful info in there.

BTW it is on a 401

I had a TBI system before this and the 2 injectors could not keep up with a 401.
How about more info on your system, some pictures?
I know a good idea when I see it!

----------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by budblind View Post
JH,
Look on the Binder planet forums for Injection Tech heading. BillUSN-1 is the moderator, and is done all kinds of MPI with IH 392's. Using salvage yard parts, also. Tons of info... God bless
Jon In Tucson
Do you have any particular links that are a good place to start?
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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My biggest beef with throttle body injection is it runs a wet manifold, so all the bad habits of fuel/air mixture apply.
I also want a system with a Mass Air Flow sensor, something that will respond to air density/moisture content, someone throttle body can't do...

To me, throttle body injection is just an electronic carb.
A little more programmable, but still not 'Optimum',
And unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing, it's not really programmable at all, you are stuck with what you get from the supplier.

Thrown in there isn't any transmission (final drive ratio) input, and most don't install the systems so the computer controls spark advance, they really aren't anything but electronic carbs.

------------------------

Sequential port injection, so I don't have fuel injectors working when there isn't any air flow to the cylinder,
A mass airflow sensor so the computer actually knows what the outside air is doing,
And running a DRY intake are all things I find desirable.

'Dry' air can sit and wait in a plenum waiting for the intake valve to open with no problems.
You do that with a wet intake, and like with all open plenum intakes and carbs, you have fuel settling issues.
So you can get by with murder when running a dry intake.

I haven't even begun to look at the different mass air flow sensors, throttle bodies, ect.
But would a throttle body pointing straight up or turning off to the side help a snorkel/ducted intake tract?

I'm just kicking around ideas, it's been so long since I've done anything like this, things have BOUND to changed a bunch, so I'm looking for good ideas...
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post #8 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 07:35 PM
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I will try and get out in the garage and take some engine pictures this weekend.

I went from a quadrajet (mounted backwards-hillbilly fuel injection) that worked pretty good but I wanted it more reliable at different elevations. I used a TBI that was basically a GM system that had a burned chip. It had 2 injectors. I could not get them big enough and if you do the math it is not possible. I thought of going to the 4 injector setup but was tired of having chips burned. I thought software would work better.

I can honestly say that I have been really happy with MFI. I just jump in, fire it up and off I go. Since I did mine (7-8 years ago) alot of new stuff is out there and some claim to self tune by just driving. I have not looked into any of this since mine works fine.

The only downside is if anything goes wrong in the ECM. It is not like you can get out and "re-tune" it. I did have this happen once while it was in a shop having engine work done. I sent it back to DFI. They downloaded my mapping, repaired the firmware and uploaded my mapping again and I was good to go.

The only current picture I have is this.






I will try and get some close ones.
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post #9 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 09:21 PM
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Depending on year PCM you use you may have the option of one set up for open intake valve injection or closed intake valve injection.

Closed valve will have most all of the fuel atomized before valve opens if I understand it correctly.
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post #10 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Don, are you running just a throttle body or do you have a mass air flow sensor tucked up under that air cleaner?
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post #11 of 17 Old 02-03-2012, 09:53 PM
DonEBeasley
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1000 cfm throttle body. I would love to run a closed intake with MAS but cannot seem to find one for AMC
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-04-2012, 07:48 AM
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Do you have any particular links that are a good place to start?[/QUOTE]


Use this link: http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/f...splay.php?f=75

The FAQ's give the basic information, then the MPFI threads are real good. God bless.
Jon In Tucson

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post #13 of 17 Old 02-04-2012, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonEBeasley View Post
1000 cfm throttle body. I would love to run a closed intake with MAS but cannot seem to find one for AMC
Ducted or Snorkel intake tract makes a good access point for a MAF sensor.

-----------------------

Thanks for the link Bud! I've got some reading to do!
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post #14 of 17 Old 02-04-2012, 09:36 AM
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-04-2012, 10:52 AM
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J Hammer,

Based on your specs, it seems a Ford FI swap may be worth looking into. Most of the hacked GM systems are speed-density systems (MAP sensor instead of MAF sensor). The MAF systems, while being more adaptable, are more complex.

This company offers a system ($$) for a V8 AMC based on Ford stuff. May give you some ideas if you haven't been there yet. It looks like they added injector bungs to an Edelbrock intake. I'm not familiar with Ford FI, but usually for a true sequential MAF systems, cam/crank sensors are needed.

http://www.massfloefi.com/mass-flo-efi-systems/amc.html

And if you haven't been here yet, it may give you some food for thought.

http://www.bcbroncos.com/fuelefi.html

I'm more biased toward the GM stuff as it is more hacked (more info out there). I'm more familiar with GM multi port batch fire (not sequential) systems. Much simpler system but some tuning/programming is required. Actually, from what I've researched, the gains in engine performance of a MAF sequential system over a speed density batch fire system are minimal, unless you're building some turbo/super charged beast. Just doesn't seem worth the effort for the small amount of gain.

You probably know this stuff - just sharing a little of the little I know.

Good Luck
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