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Unread 08-09-2012, 09:00 AM   #76
8pitcher
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So what do I need to do to fix it. Replace cam and chain?

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Unread 08-09-2012, 09:22 AM   #77
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8,

You may get away with simply fab'ing a thrust plate. Here's a section from a book call "BJ Builds an AMC".

Hope this helps, and sorry for the temporary de-rail, Dada.

Matt
picture-8.jpg  
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Unread 08-09-2012, 09:25 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7
8,

You may get away with simply fab'ing a thrust plate. Here's a section from a book call "BJ Builds an AMC".

Hope this helps, and sorry for the temporary de-rail, Dada.

Matt
Hey thanks I will try that when I get to buildings engine back up.
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Built Not Bought #640[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/CENTER][/COLOR]

1976ish cj5 304 t18 d20 2.5" lift

some year YJ custom frame HP D60 14 bolt 4 linked front rear FI 350 700r4 NP231c

2009 JK 4 door 2.5" lift 35" tires custom bumpers mile marker 9500# winch
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Unread 08-09-2012, 09:54 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8pitcher View Post
Thanks. What caused the oscillating circles though? Is there any concern?
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
I'm no expert, but I believe it's cased by cam walk. The AMC V8s have no thrust plate, or button, to prevent the cam from walking back and forth.

When it gets too sloppy, like yours apparently has gotten, it will start chewing up cam and dizzy gears, and stretch timing chains.

Matt
You talking about that little "O" or the slinky?

If the slinky was cam walk, it got lost and ran around.

That thing looks as if it moved about 2" sideways.
I'm thinking someone made a little clearance on a Mill or something.

Are all V8's this custom?
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Unread 08-09-2012, 10:07 AM   #80
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Looks really clean to me. I wouldn't mess with it the chain looks almost new.

And could you post a pic of the inside of your timing cover? I have some circular grooves in mine and I wanna see if you do too so I will know if I have something wrong.
Thats pretty much what I'm thinking, and with the poor shape the bottom end is in, the chain or the dist gears for sure wont be the first thing to go.

My timing cover looks exactly like Matt's, except its not as clean as his. I don't know whats up with your's but I agree that it looks like it was machined to be that way, but who knows.
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Unread 08-09-2012, 10:10 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
Put the harmonic balencer on before you tighten the cover bolts. It will help line up the seal.
Thanks for the tip. Thats actually a great idea! I dont know how much I trust those little tension pins. I wish everything came with legit dowel pins.
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Unread 08-09-2012, 10:11 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
8,

You may get away with simply fab'ing a thrust plate. Here's a section from a book call "BJ Builds an AMC".

Hope this helps, and sorry for the temporary de-rail, Dada.

Matt
No worries, this thread is all about timing, and I think this all fits in one way or the other.
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Unread 08-09-2012, 10:14 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Dadamsnv

No worries, this thread is all about timing, and I think this all fits in one way or the other.
Yep. I will ask a machine shop about mine and let you know what they think. And it is the "timing cover".
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1976ish cj5 304 t18 d20 2.5" lift

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2009 JK 4 door 2.5" lift 35" tires custom bumpers mile marker 9500# winch
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Unread 08-09-2012, 10:30 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
You talking about that little "O" or the slinky?

If the slinky was cam walk, it got lost and ran around.

That thing looks as if it moved about 2" sideways.
I'm thinking someone made a little clearance on a Mill or something.
John,

Good call. Perhaps they didn't get the bore plug placed correctly, and decided to grind the timing cover instead.

Matt
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Unread 08-16-2012, 10:58 AM   #85
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And we're back online. I decided to replace my oil pump while I had the beast apart. I had 10 PSI per 1000 RPM at operating temps with rotella 15w-40, so I was hoping a pump rebuild would get me back into a factory oil weight. I had a bunch of challanges getting the beast to work properly with the new oil pump, and long story short, I was putting the bypass plunger in backwards like a total idiot. Now that I've got that figured out, I'm running shell 5w-30 at 18 PSI idle at operating temps. I'll probably drop down to 5w-20 next oil change and see what that does.

I also have an obnoxious howl off my accessories, and I've replaced the alternator (needed to anyway) and the water pump (probably needed to) and it still howls. It must be a goofy V-belt

But anyway. I drove a good bit last night and today, and with the new jets (#58 mains), the lighter weight oil, and a direct drive flex fan, she's faster and stronger than ever! At first I had a really bad stumble at 700-1000 RPM, but only when I was cruising at those RPMs. It would blast out of the lul if I gave it more fuel, so I know it wasn't the accel pump or power valve, must've been a fuel delivery problem. Regardless, by the time I got home last night, that was all gone, and she gets off the line nice and strong, and doesn't bog at low RPMs. Also, with the current jetting, I smell regular exhaust fumes while I'm driving, not the fuel smell of running too rich. Even after doing a bunch of pretty good wheeling last night, I never smelt fuel once (except for when I flooded the carb up a steep hill). At this point, I believe my main jets are dialed in. Also, when I rebuilt the front end of the motor, I set the base timing at 13* advance, and that seemed to make a pretty big difference.

as I sit now...

I have a pretty darn good centrifugal advance curve (I don't think I can find the springs to make it any better, but I'll look)
I have a base timing of 13* (adjusted for an altitude of 5000 ft.)
I have my main jets as dialed as I can get without a lean rich indicator (which I've been considering buying or making)
I have my power valve dialed (but set 1.5 inHg lower than recommended for wheeling) and my accel pump dialed, and basically the whole carb dialed in (for a DD anyway, not race dialed)
I'm running cold while wheeling (event the very slow crawl high RPM stuff) and on the road.
I'm running great oil pressure on a factory oil grade. That will only get better once I use 5w-20.

This leaves two more things I need to focus on. The first is the vac advance tuning. The second is proper spark plug wire routing and organization, and proper ignition system grounding. Right now my wire are very close to eachother, and are draped over the valve covers. JeepHammer suggests that the wires be routed at least .5" (I think its .5" anyway) from eachother and from anything metal. Also, they shouldn't cross up as much as mine do. This can seriously debilitate your spark.

I will begin this last phase of my golden tune hopefully tonight or tomorrow, but first I need a vacuum pump. I saw that Matt had one in his I6 vid. It looked like the mighty vac one I've seen around. I'll look into getting one of those units. I'll have to wait until my next paycheck to get plug wires.
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Unread 08-16-2012, 11:13 AM   #86
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On second thought, To tune the vac advance, you turn it up a little and dive at PTC, then punch the throttle down sharp and feel for hesitation, I can do this without a vacuum pump (I've found out they are about $50). The vac pump just allows you to check how much advance is added to the curve for a given vacuum reading. Its basically so you can chart your curve, and I don't need that really. If I can figure out a way to make one for cheap, I'll get my curve put up.

Meanwhile. I will top her off today, and drive her around for a few days while I play with the vac advance, and report my gas mileage.
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Unread 08-16-2012, 01:44 PM   #87
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It makes my hair stand upon the back of my neck hearing you consider 5w20 oil.

I run the T6 in the 258. 5w30 is as low as I'd go. But oil causes as many arguments as religion and politics.................
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Unread 08-16-2012, 02:18 PM   #88
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It makes my hair stand upon the back of my neck hearing you consider 5w20 oil.

I run the T6 in the 258. 5w30 is as low as I'd go. But oil causes as many arguments as religion and politics.................
I know what you mean, folks get pretty heated about it. Have a read of this article if you are bored. Its very long winded, but enlightening IMO.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Without going into great detail, the article states that there is no motor oil currently available that protects your motor well on startup (they are all too thick/viscus). The first number (the one before the "w" on multigrade oil) represents how viscus the oil is cold (0 being the lest viscus). The second number represents how viscus the oil is at operating temp (again the lower the number the lower the viscosity). Since all oils are too thick on startup, the lower the viscostiy on startup, the better it protects and faster it reaches operating viscosity (hence 5w-20 since 0w-20 is racing only oil as far as i've found). Also, there is a sweet spot between pressure and flow that motors love, and that is usually 10 PSI per 1000 RPM. So since I'm at 18 PSI hot idle right now with 5w-30, when I change my oil next, 5w-20 should put me closer to 12 PSI. Thats where I'll get the best cold protection for the motor, and the sweet spot for pressure and flow. According to the article at least. And full synthetic is less viscus cold too.

Im not preaching anything, just sharing my reasoning
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Unread 08-16-2012, 04:05 PM   #89
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Only thing I'll argue about is the 10psi per 1000rpm thing. That was taken out of the mopar bible back in the 70's as a guideline for safe oil pressures for racing conditions.
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Unread 08-16-2012, 05:18 PM   #90
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Only thing I'll argue about is the 10psi per 1000rpm thing. That was taken out of the mopar bible back in the 70's as a guideline for safe oil pressures for racing conditions.
Out of curiosity, what do you suggest. I unfortunately have no real backing in anything other than what other people say works, so I'm open to anybody's opinions on the matter. I've always run what my truck says to run, and it has pushed 40 PSI for 160,000 flawless miles, but that's all I know.
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