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Unread 05-10-2011, 07:33 AM   #1
reundo
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1982 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: East Tenn, Tennessee
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Scrambler Restoration Questions

First let me apologize for the long and probably drawn out post. Just wanting to figure out how these modifications will affect the value of my restoration.

So I am starting to do some and get some work done on my 1982 scrambler. I will be starting a build thread here soon. I was just wondering about everybody's opinion on what I was thinking about doing. I would like to restore the scrambler, but also make it usable and reliable for a daily driver. I want to keep it original as possible. I have some mods in mind but I dont want to destroy the originality value of the jeep. The drivetrain is all stock and matches the vin: 258 2-barrel carb, t5 transmission, and the dana 300 t-case. The axles are also stock with crappy 2.73 gears and the two piece axles in the back. One of the PO has performed the nutter bypass, getting rid of most of the extra wiring, but kept all the vacuum tubes in place. Now the brakes are shot, the master brake cylinder needs to be replaced, the front axle u-joints need to be replaced and the seals need to be replaced in the rear.

I am getting parts ready to install power steering, with the durango box upgrade. (To hard to drive with manual steering in the city, parallel parking is the worst) How much would it hurt to install disc brakes in the back, a power braking system and change the gears to either 3.73 or 4.10? My friends are pushing me to replace the lockout hubs while I am doing axle work too and I am also thinking about upgrading the springs to yj since my shocks are shot as well. Its easier to do all this why I have it apart and off the road already.

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Unread 05-10-2011, 08:04 AM   #2
kickingprop
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First off I have to ask, why upgrade to a Durango steering box? The power steering boxes that came in CJ's are perfectly strong for what you describe as the end use of your rig. I'd just go with one of those and maybe an HD Steering box bracket from one of the many manufacturers that make them.

I dont think you'd be hurting anything to install disc brakes while you do 1pc axles, and re-gear the axles at the same time. All you would need is to remove the residual valve out of the MC and everything else should be good. A Dual Diaphragm YJ Booster/MC might be a worthwhile upgrade as well.

Unless you are upgrading the front axle to a D44 or bigger, I'd just leave the manual hubs as they are. Switching to a 70's hub and rotor will afford you the 6bolt lockouts from the weaker 5bolt but if you arent wheeling it with lockers, big tires and a heavy foot, chances are it wont be necessary.

YJ Springs are a good upgrade. Be sure to check out the Crabtree YJ Spring hangers and shackles that Jim1611, a user/vendor on here makes. They are PREMIUM quality from what I've seen!

Nothing you are describing doing sounds too out of the ordinary and with enough time and $$$ should make for a pretty nice scrambler!

Having said all that I didnt type this up not to see a good build thread so take LOTS of pics and post em up!!!
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Phase Two: Bedliner, Rollcage, Seats, BESRK Rear Bumper w/ tire swing, Soft Top, and a few other goodies - Mostly Complete
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Unread 05-10-2011, 08:26 AM   #3
reundo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingprop View Post
First off I have to ask, why upgrade to a Durango steering box? The power steering boxes that came in CJ's are perfectly strong for what you describe as the end use of your rig. I'd just go with one of those and maybe an HD Steering box bracket from one of the many manufacturers that make them.
I have manual steering right now so I need to buy a power steering box anyways. I can get a durango box for about the same price as the cj one so I figured why not get something alittle stronger, if anyone thinks this is going to hurt the restore value to much I will probably go with the cj box. (I just like to improve things as best as I can while I am working on them) I am planning on installing one of the HD brackets while I am at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingprop View Post
I dont think you'd be hurting anything to install disc brakes while you do 1pc axles, and re-gear the axles at the same time. All you would need is to remove the residual valve out of the MC and everything else should be good. A Dual Diaphragm YJ Booster/MC might be a worthwhile upgrade as well.
Brake wise I am in the same boat as the steering. I have manual brakes so I will be upgrading to some sort of power brake system. I just haven't decide what I am going to do yet since I am still looking at doing disc brakes in the rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingprop View Post
Unless you are upgrading the front axle to a D44 or bigger, I'd just leave the manual hubs as they are. Switching to a 70's hub and rotor will afford you the 6bolt lockouts from the weaker 5bolt but if you arent wheeling it with lockers, big tires and a heavy foot, chances are it wont be necessary.
Hub wise my friends were just suggesting like a basic warn or superwinch lockout hub system to replace the stock ones. I don't know if they are any improvement over them except they are like a 1/4 turn to engage instead of 3/4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingprop View Post
YJ Springs are a good upgrade. Be sure to check out the Crabtree YJ Spring hangers and shackles that Jim1611, a user/vendor on here makes. They are PREMIUM quality from what I've seen!

Nothing you are describing doing sounds too out of the ordinary and with enough time and $$$ should make for a pretty nice scrambler!

Having said all that I didnt type this up not to see a good build thread so take LOTS of pics and post em up!!!
I will have to look into the hangers and shackles. From what i have read so far. It doesn't look like it will be to hard to do. Thank you for the info! Don't worry I have started taking some pictures on some of the basic work I have done already. Once I get my thesis rough draft done I will have some time to start my build, thread, and keep everyone updated.

Keep the thoughts coming
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Unread 05-10-2011, 08:38 AM   #4
kickingprop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reundo View Post
I have manual steering right now so I need to buy a power steering box anyways. I can get a durango box for about the same price as the cj one so I figured why not get something alittle stronger, if anyone thinks this is going to hurt the restore value to much I will probably go with the cj box. (I just like to improve things as best as I can while I am working on them) I am planning on installing one of the HD brackets while I am at it.
I've just never heard of using a Durango box so it caught me offguard. A lot of people use the steering box from an older J-truck as its supposed to be a mostly bolt in upgrade from the CJ PS Box. you might want to research that as well.

Quote:
Brake wise I am in the same boat as the steering. I have manual brakes so I will be upgrading to some sort of power brake system. I just haven't decide what I am going to do yet since I am still looking at doing disc brakes in the rear.
I hear you on the manual brakes, I've got them too... I'll be doing 4wheel disc and a vaccuum booster (or maybe hydroboost?) when I do my axle swap one of these days. Check out VancoPBS for the high end options on booster/MC, and tsmmfg.com for bolt on rear disc options. There are also threads for using 300zx calipers and Geo Tracker rotors on here as well.


Quote:
Hub wise my friends were just suggesting like a basic warn or superwinch lockout hub system to replace the stock ones. I don't know if they are any improvement over them except they are like a 1/4 turn to engage instead of 3/4.
I like the stock ones, but for me the extra half a turn isnt a big deal and its the OEM style... Although on my rig its the only thing that is OEM!



Quote:
I will have to look into the hangers and shackles. From what i have read so far. It doesn't look like it will be to hard to do. Thank you for the info! Don't worry I have started taking some pictures on some of the basic work I have done already. Once I get my thesis rough draft done I will have some time to start my build, thread, and keep everyone updated.

Keep the thoughts coming

Here are the links to Jims Products on here. They will make you

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cu...ngers-1114775/
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/yj...e-usa-1177235/
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1985 CJ7 Project
Phase One : 5.3L Vortec/4L60E, Moser axles for AMC20, Twin Stick'd Dana300 - Completed
Phase Two: Bedliner, Rollcage, Seats, BESRK Rear Bumper w/ tire swing, Soft Top, and a few other goodies - Mostly Complete
Phase Three: Waggy 44 front, Scout D44 Rear, 4.56's, ARB's (F/R) SOA with YJ Springs, 35x12.50x15 BFG MT - Not Even Close to beginning

Also a mostly rust-free 1970 Scout 800A That I'll get to start working on someday...

Quote:
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Unread 05-10-2011, 08:53 AM   #5
walkerhoundvm
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In my opinion, there's three or four levels of (Scrambler) restoration.

The first is pristine, show-room floor variety restoration. These guys are the kooks who sandblast every nut and bolt and get the exact paint codes and want only OEM parts, as fresh as possible and then clean them with a q-tip and solvent. These jeeps never see a dirt road, but aren't mall cruisers by any means! A buyer would never think about making a trail rig out of it.

The next level down is the guy who likes everything to look original and new, knowing that a lot of the parts aren't original though look good anyways. Minor modifications, as long as they're inconspicuous (headlight relay addition, nutter bypass, TBI upgrade, power brakes, one-piece axles, etc) that improve the function of the vehicle are A-OK. The Scrambler won't be as valuable as a show-room floor original, but it looks good and is a practical Jeep, so it's more valuable than a beater. These Jeeps see a dirt road when you're going to grandmas house or get lost in the country, but could be made into either a dependable trail rig or stripped to go OEM. This is the type of guy I am, sounds like you may be too.

The next level is a guy who tries to maintain his Jeep with whatever is cheap and easy. Pieces aren't stock, don't look stock, but were on sale and do the job. Rust isn't minded as long as she holds up. These Jeeps see dirt roads and trails once a week or so, either on a hunting trip or to try to get some mud on the tires. These Scramblers probably hold the least value, but at least offer a new buyer the opportunity to do anything with them - trail rig, complete restore, whatever.

Next is a pure off-road junkie. These Jeeps are modified to the hilt to make it trail-worthy and bomb-proof. You'd never think of making them into a showroom Jeep, but they have more value than a beater.

Bottom line - if you're not going for a showroom Jeep, the modifications you are doing won't hurt the value of what you have to start with. Depending on how practical the mods you do are, it'll make improve the value to a point. Keep in mind we are talking about cars here, and one that holds value over time is really a rare thing.

My opinion from seeing a lot of Scramblers for sale and in use, others will surely be different.
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Unread 05-10-2011, 02:08 PM   #6
jeepster105
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Regarding power brakes, for some reason I thought all Scramblers came stock with them. Mine had them and it was pretty bare bones. With that said, the factory booster works great in my rig (especially for being 27 years old!) And I still can't figure out why it is even necessary in such a light vehicle, considering my 86 CJ-7 has manual brakes and stops on a dime.
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Unread 05-12-2011, 11:09 AM   #7
reundo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingprop View Post
I've just never heard of using a Durango box so it caught me offguard. A lot of people use the steering box from an older J-truck as its supposed to be a mostly bolt in upgrade from the CJ PS Box. you might want to research that as well.
The nice thing about the durango box is I do not have to buy a new coupler or new steering shaft. Alot of the xj,zj, and tj guys do this upgrade.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingprop View Post
I hear you on the manual brakes, I've got them too... I'll be doing 4wheel disc and a vaccuum booster (or maybe hydroboost?) when I do my axle swap one of these days. Check out VancoPBS for the high end options on booster/MC, and tsmmfg.com for bolt on rear disc options. There are also threads for using 300zx calipers and Geo Tracker rotors on here as well.
I have been looking at the Vanco systems for the booster/MC. Thanks for the link on the disc brake brackets. I would rather find some already made and tested giving me less of a headache during setup and install.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingprop View Post
I will def. be checking these out. I think the suspension upgrade will be on hold till the brakes and axles are taken care of though. I would like to do it all at once, but I don't know if I can afford it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walkerhoundvm View Post
In my opinion, there's three or four levels of (Scrambler) restoration.

The next level down is the guy who likes everything to look original and new, knowing that a lot of the parts aren't original though look good anyways. Minor modifications, as long as they're inconspicuous (headlight relay addition, nutter bypass, TBI upgrade, power brakes, one-piece axles, etc) that improve the function of the vehicle are A-OK. The Scrambler won't be as valuable as a show-room floor original, but it looks good and is a practical Jeep, so it's more valuable than a beater. These Jeeps see a dirt road when you're going to grandmas house or get lost in the country, but could be made into either a dependable trail rig or stripped to go OEM. This is the type of guy I am, sounds like you may be too.
Thats about where I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster105 View Post
Regarding power brakes, for some reason I thought all Scramblers came stock with them. Mine had them and it was pretty bare bones. With that said, the factory booster works great in my rig (especially for being 27 years old!) And I still can't figure out why it is even necessary in such a light vehicle, considering my 86 CJ-7 has manual brakes and stops on a dime.
When they work they are awesome. The manual brakes in my cj7 were great. Since most of the braking system needs to be replaced I figured it would be a good time to upgrade the whole system.
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Unread 05-12-2011, 02:36 PM   #8
Rollbar
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Well since I was kid wheeling my Willy's to my '77 and up CJ's. I never had problems w/the OEM hubs, manual brakes etc. I kept my Jeeps mainly stock (except for a lift and 33's) and I could go almost anywhere. It really depends on what you want to do.

I am in the process of completing my '84 CJ8 build (need to add exhaust, re-paint the hood, add rock guards etc) and it will take me anywhere and w/the stock D-30/44 axles, I don't wheel like a crazy person or a person who has all the mods (axles, driveline etc) because I know the limits of my vehicles/Jeeps, be smart w/the right foot and the Jeep will do it's job.

P.S. I never have had a locker either and I have wheeled in N.C.'s slippery clay, Fla's mud/water/swamp and now I'm out west which should be interesting w/the AMC 360, if not I will put the 258 back in. I have a 2.5" lift/1" Body Lift by Daystar of which I recommend, helps when you work on it in my opinion.

Go here --> http://street2mud.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8&st=0
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Unread 05-12-2011, 02:40 PM   #9
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Reundo - Steering box brace 25 bucks.


http://jeeptalk.net/index.php?showtopic=21529
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Unread 05-12-2011, 02:42 PM   #10
brownbagg
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the stock power steering box is an saginaw box. every gm car and truck made has this box, you can buy them as cheap as $25 in a pick and pull. it doesnt have to be a cj or jeep at all. Mine came off a buick skylark. that was all I bought, everything else work perfect.
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Unread 05-20-2011, 10:46 AM   #11
reundo
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So I finally have my power steering pump and all of the brackets to go with it. I am looking at using the durango power steering box so I do not have to change my steering shaft. Does anyone know if I am going to need a new pitman arm? I know the power steering pitman arm is different for the cj's than the manual, but I am hoping since the manual steering shaft fits the box so will the pitman arm.

What's the spline count for both pitman arms? And does anyone know the spline count for the durango box?
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Unread 05-20-2011, 10:58 AM   #12
BioTex
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The way I see it when doing a restore on a vehicle that is going to be used regularily (not a garage Queen), is that modifications to upgrade safety are welcomed. Personally, for me anything goes as long as it can be easily undone.

I don't see how adding disc brakes or power steering could even remotely hurt the resale price, especially if you keep all the old original parts for some future owner.

Good luck with it!
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Unread 05-20-2011, 11:56 AM   #13
Lordwrench
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"The nice thing about the durango box is I do not have to buy a new coupler or new steering shaft. Alot of the xj,zj, and tj guys do this upgrade."


The nicer thing about the cj box is you don't have to buy anything.Those are not cj's,they were built by a totally different company with a box that is inferior to the durango box, which is inferior to that saginaw that came on a CJ.You are working on a car made by a completely different company than those.Don't referenence mods from xj,zj and tj crews to your old cj unless you research and define they are actually "upgrades" to what you are starting with. Save the money, buy the brace you are already buying and put the coin to work in the other upgrades you have planned that are necessary.Welcome to cj land;-)
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Unread 05-20-2011, 12:03 PM   #14
reundo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordwrench View Post
"The nice thing about the durango box is I do not have to buy a new coupler or new steering shaft. Alot of the xj,zj, and tj guys do this upgrade."


The nicer thing about the cj box is you don't have to buy anything.Those are not cj's,they were built by a totally different company with a box that is inferior to the durango box, which is inferior to that saginaw that came on a CJ.You are working on a car made by a completely different company than those.Don't referenence mods from xj,zj and tj crews to your old cj unless you research and define they are actually "upgrades" to what you are starting with. Save the money, buy the brace you are already buying and put the coin to work in the other upgrades you have planned that are necessary.Welcome to cj land;-)
I am upgrading from manual steering to power steering. With the cj box I need buy a coupler or new steering shaft and a ps pitman arm. I am trying to find out if I need to buy a new pitman arm for the durango box. I am also looking at the J20 ps boxes, but I haven't found any clear information on it being direct bolt on, along with possibly needing the same parts as the cj ps box would require.
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Unread 05-20-2011, 12:44 PM   #15
jeepwhore
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My personal opinion is unless you are doing a complete restore to factory condition, there is no point in even thinking about how what you are doing is affecting "restoration value". Those things will up the "re-sale value" slightly but thats about it. An altered scrambler with or without power steering/brakes isn't going to be valued as high as an unmolested, ALL original, low mileage one. I'd just do what you want to it, how you want, and enjoy the results. Get the notion of return on your "investment" out of your mind right now, it'll only cause you heartache later!
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