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Unread 01-08-2010, 11:40 AM   #1
CJ-Steve
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1981 CJ7 
 
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Schematic for Headlights and Aux. Lights

I have an ’81 CJ7, 4.2L, which is only used on a hunting lease. I plan to upgrade the headlights and install an option for aux. lights in the future. I have reviewed a number of posts from JeepHammer and others on adding circuit breakers and resettable fuses to increase the current to the headlights. I wanted to use the headlight switch to trigger a set of relays to turn on the headlights and have a separate switch for the aux. lights that only come on only when the headlights are on. Does anyone have a schematic for this setup?

I plan on using 10 AWG wire and the parts below:

Waterproof Relay w/ bracket: Hella HL87411 or HL87412
Weather proof Connector: Hella HL87173 (?)
Circuit Breaker 10 Amp, Type I: Bussman CBC-10B
Circuit Breaker 20 Amp, Type I: Bussman CBC-20B
Heavy Duty Circuit Breaker 30 Amp, Type I: Bussman CBC-30B


I have several other questions:

1.Do I need to use the weather proof connector (HL87173) on the relays or will spade connectors and heat shrink be good enough?

2.Should I use a type I or type II circuit breakers?

FYI… Type I breakers are sometimes called, “cycling breakers” since they will continue to reset themselves until the problem is fixed. Type II breakers will remain off until all the control and source power is cycled off.


I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, images or lessons learned.

Thanks,
Steve

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Unread 01-08-2010, 12:33 PM   #2
jeepskate
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The basic schematic for using the relays has been posted here several times and is available all over the web as it's not specific to Jeeps. John Strenk has probably posted it here several times. There are also several outfits that sell the harnesses pre-made (I bought one off Ebay a while back...maybe I'll get around to installing it this weekend). To add the aux circuit, simply connect another wire from the headlight switch wire (which is now being used to energize the new headlight relays) to a relay for the aux lights and interrupt that wire with the switch for the aux lights so that the aux light relay can only be energized when you throw both the headlight switch and the aux light switch.
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Unread 01-08-2010, 03:40 PM   #3
JeepHammer
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Depends on what you want the aux. lights to do...

If you want them to go 'Off' when you switch to 'Dim' lights, we can do that.

If you want them to go 'Off' when you shut the ignition off, then we can do that also.

If you want them to work independently on a switch, but NOT run the battery down when the engine is shut off, We can do that.

Personally, I like for my Aux. lights to go 'Off' when I shut the engine off,
And I like them to go off when I 'Dim' the headlights so they don't blind others...

If you want your headlights to run off relays so you can use 'Hotter' bulbs, that's pretty easy also...

Just be VERY specific what you want them to do and we'll probably be able to direct you to a diagram that will spell out what you need to do...
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Unread 01-08-2010, 07:35 PM   #4
CJ-Steve
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Thanks for your help. It is very dark on my hunting lease, so I want to throw as much light in front of me as I can. This jeep is not driven on any paved roads. Just the few roads on my lease.

I am in the process of making new battery cables and adding dedicated returns per your other posts prior to these changes. While I am doing this, I can included any additional wiring for the fuses and relays needed on the aux. lights and headlights.


This is what I would like as far as the aux. lights:

1. When the engine is off & the headlights are on or off, the aux. lights can not be turned on i.e. no power.

2. Only when the engine is running & the headlights are either on (Bright or Dim) or off, the aux. lights can be turned on with a separate switch.


I have not identified the aux. lights I want to use. This will probably dictate the size of the resettable fuse. For now, I wanted to add the wiring for the return and power.


For the headlights, I wanted to use the interior on/off switch to activate relays that power the headlights and include a jumper to keep the dim lights on when the brights are on.

I am thinking of replacing the current lamps with the Sylvania SilverStar lamps in the future. Do you recommend changing the factory wiring on the lamp sockets with a larger gage (10 or 12 gage) before changing to the SilverStar lamps? This would include changing all three lines (both power lines and the return). Does the return line need to be larger since the dim and brights would be on?

I hope I have been specific and clear enough. Please let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks again,
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Unread 01-09-2010, 07:06 AM   #5
jeepskate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ-Steve View Post
This is what I would like as far as the aux. lights:

1. When the engine is off & the headlights are on or off, the aux. lights can not be turned on i.e. no power.

2. Only when the engine is running & the headlights are either on (Bright or Dim) or off, the aux. lights can be turned on with a separate switch.
Okay, that's a little different from your original post. That's just the standard aux light hook-up with switch & relay...that diagram is all over the place and I've even seen it on the light packaging. All you'll do in that case is follow the standard install and pull the power to the switch from an ignition switched source.

Quote:
For the headlights, I wanted to use the interior on/off switch to activate relays that power the headlights and include a jumper to keep the dim lights on when the brights are on.

I am thinking of replacing the current lamps with the Sylvania SilverStar lamps in the future. Do you recommend changing the factory wiring on the lamp sockets with a larger gage (10 or 12 gage) before changing to the SilverStar lamps? This would include changing all three lines (both power lines and the return). Does the return line need to be larger since the dim and brights would be on?
I would suggest that you do it the same way that the pre-fab harnesses are done. You'll build a new harness that has the headlight sockets on one end, relays in the middle and one male headlight plug on the other end. This plug will then plug into either of your original headlight sockets (the other will be unused). All that your sending down the original wiring in this case is the little bit of juice that's required to trigger the relays...the new harness & sockets take on the increased load. I'll have to ponder it a bit and sketch it out (JeepHammer may get to it before I do...gotta go plow the driveway and setup my buddy's new internet router) but off-hand I'm thinking that you can use a relay with two trigger contacts (DPST if I'm remembering my terminology correctly) with a jumper on your low-beam side in order to keep them on with the hi-beams. It looks just like the standard black automotive relay but costs a little bit more and has an additional terminal (53A or 58A is sticking in my head for some reason as the label on the additional terminal).
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Unread 01-09-2010, 07:19 AM   #6
jeepskate
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Relay info:

Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT), Single Pole Single Throw (SPST) Automotive Relays

Headlight wiring info & diagram:

Wiring Headlight Relays
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'83 Scrambler: time & money pit under construction with parts from CJ's,YJ's,TJ's,FSJ's,GM,Ford,IH,Honda,Toyota and a whole lotta aftermarket & custom stuff.
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Unread 01-09-2010, 07:28 AM   #7
CJ-Steve
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Thanks for your help. I pretty much followed your reply except for

Quote:
You'll build a new harness that has the headlight sockets on one end, relays in the middle and one male headlight plug on the other end. This plug will then plug into either of your original headlight sockets (the other will be unused).
A sketch would be helpful.

I found some of JeepHammer's schematics and recommended parts. He shows a type II fuse, which can only be reset after power cycling the entire circuit. Is that recommended over the type I, which automatically resets itself?

Good luck with the router install and snow plowing.

Thanks
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Unread 01-09-2010, 07:48 AM   #8
John Strenk
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This is to save you on cutting and splicing your original harness.

You plug one connector into one of you OEM headlight plugs. Connect the two new headlight connectors onto your new headlights. There could be one connector to go to battery and ground and the relays are already installed.

You could build the harness in the warmth and comfort of your house and hook it up in about 10 Min.

You need to use ones that are self resetting.
headlightharnessrelays.jpg  
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Unread 01-09-2010, 08:37 AM   #9
rrtex1
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I would like to wire so that all of my lights come on at dusk and off at dawn. Light sensing. Any ideas? Relay and a light sensor?
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Unread 01-09-2010, 10:41 AM   #10
JeepHammer
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OK....

There are some misconceptions here that need to be cleaned up...

First off,
What breaker you use depends on how many feed lines you use to the power relays.

*IF* you use the factory feed line to the 'Low' beams,
Then the head light switch has a self resetting breaker build in.

*IF* you use a relay for the 'High' beams, you will need to use a 'Lock Out' type breaker for the feed line.
That way, the breaker doesn't come back 'In' and continue to make the grounded wire catch fire!

*IF* you use a single feed line to both 'High/Low' beams,
You MUST use a self resetting breaker so you at least have low beams if something goes wrong.

That's why I recommend using the factory head light switch for direct power to 'Low' (Primary Light) beams, and a relay for the 'High' (Secondary) lights.

By doing that, you have a 'Fail Safe' situation for the Primary 'Low' beams in the event you have a wire get pinched, melted through, ect.

------------------------------------------------------------

Insert breakers are not hard to reset!
You simply pull them out of the breaker/fuse block and reinsert them.

------------------------------------------------------------

ALL AUXILIARY LIGHTS SHOULD BE ON A LOCK OUT TYPE BREAKER OF SOME SORT.

The reason being auxiliary lights have exposed wiring that is easily damaged.

-----------------------------------------

Low beams are your life line in the event of damage to the main circuits.

DO NOT CUT CORNERS WITH THEM,
Keep the circuits as simple as possible.
Keep the circuits as armored & shielded as possible.

I don't even run the same wiring route paths for the Primary lights as I do the secondary and aux. lights most of the time!Most of the time, my primary lights follow the factory route, but get larger gauge wire and get 'Armored' so they don't have as much chance of getting damaged...Since the factory headlight switch has it's own breaker,
I often run a 10 Ga. 'Feed' (With fusible link) from starter relay directly to the head light switch,
Then I use larger wire gauge out to the dimmer switch and head light.
The 'Factory' way is to piggyback the headlights off the feed for the factory fuse block and I don't want something in the fuse block blowing the fusible link to the fuse block/headlights at the same time.

This leaves me dead in the road, no power to anything including brake lights, tail lights or head lights,
And I might still be moving 60 MPH when the event occurs!
Not a good situation!

Since the factory head light wiring runs on the DRIVERS SIDE of the vehicle,
I put in my AUX. light wiring for 'High' beams (Secondary) and any additional light wiring on the PASSENGERS SIDE of the vehicle so if something compromises the Primary lights, the secondary lights will still work,
OR,
If something compromises the secondary lights or aux. lights, the primaries will still work...

(Like when I bashed a deer at about 45 MPH and the passenger side fender jolted enough to tear loose the feed to the fuse block & head lights back in '83!
Or back when I snagged the Aux. light feeds on a tree limb and ripped out the harness on the passenger side...)
--------------------------------------

Personally, I like to size my circuit protection to just under the wire size I'm going to use...
That's so the circuit protection is 'Smaller' than the wire,
And it will be the FIRST thing to 'Go' instead of setting my wiring on fire!

Much easier to replace fuses, fusible links, circuit breakers than to put a fire out!

Once an Aux. or Secondary circuit encounters a problem and activates the circuit protection,
I REALLY don't want it coming back on until I find/correct the 'Issue'...
So Fusible Links and Lock Out breakers are a good way to do that...

I DO WANT MY PRIMARY LIGHTS TO COME BACK ON AT ALL COSTS!
So I use Self Resetting breakers in those positions.

I hate the idea of going down the highway at 50 or 60 MPH and having EVERYTHING quit at the same time, but I'm still moving almost a mile a minute!--------------------------------------------------------------

IN MY OPINION...

You should use AT LEAST three 'Feeds' for your lights.

One for the factory head light switch, low beam side and power to feed the relays for the other lights,
...Which you
DO NOT have right now since your lights are slaved to the fuse block,

You should have one 'Feed' for the 'High Beams',
Protected at the connection to the starter relay for the large wire to the relay,And protected again as it comes out of the relay and breaks into two smaller wires going to the head light 'High' beams.

You should have a THIRD 'FEED'
protected at the starter relay connection point to protect the large wire to the relays,
And you should have smaller wires coming out of the relay protected going to the light strings.This makes it VERY EASY to make the different light strings do EXACTLY what you want them to do also!
Each 'Source Line' can be manipulated,
Each relay can be manipulated,
And each light can be manipulated if you want to get that technical with things.This will let you pick and choose which lights work when and under what conditions.

An oil pressure switch will cut things off or power things up when the engine is running,
Toggle switches on the dash will let you turn On/Off any light or string of lights you wish,
And a connection to the head light switch will make all secondary/aux. lights work with the switch.
------------------------------

I offered help... And that still goes.
I will need to know how many and what strings of lights you want to use...
Where the lights will be located.

Are you running extra lights in the front of the vehicle you want to come 'On' with the high beams?

Are you running a light bar across the top of the windshield?

Are you running 'Side Lights' that you want to be able to control?

Number of lights,
Location of lights,
How do you want to control them?
Automatic - Slaved to the engine or headlight switch, with toggle switches, with the dimmer switch, ect.
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Unread 01-09-2010, 12:43 PM   #11
CJ-Steve
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I am learning a lot about jeep wiring and how to properly use relays and breakers/fuses. Thanks JeepHammer, jeepskate and John Strenk for all the help.

Hopefully, I have answered your questions below:

Quote:
I offered help... And that still goes.
I will need to know how many and what strings of lights you want to use...
Where the lights will be located.

Are you running extra lights in the front of the vehicle you want to come 'On' with the high beams?
I plan on using hood or windshield hinge brackets for the aux. lights. There will only be one on each side for a total of two. I need them above the front head lights, but not above the top of the jeep. There is a game rack in the front, so when I have a deer loaded in it, the headlights get obscured. Likewise, a light bar above the roof line would get snagged on low hanging branchs.

I would like the aux. lights slaved to the engine so they can only be "On" with the engine running and an interior switch in the "On" position. When the engine is turned off, the aux. lights should go off, regardless if the interior switch is in the "on" position. The interior switch controls the aux. lights only with the engine running.


Quote:
Are you running a light bar across the top of the windshield?
No light bar

Quote:
Are you running 'Side Lights' that you want to be able to control?
No "Side lights"


If I understand your reply, the basic wiring should be as below:
1. The primary (low beam) lights should be controlled and get its power from the interior on/off pull switch.
2. The high beams should get power from a separate power line to a relay that is slaved to the factory dimmer switch.
3. The aux. lights should get power from another separate power line to a relay that is slaved to a switch inside the cab.

I agree, " I DO WANT MY PRIMARY LIGHTS TO COME BACK ON AT ALL COSTS!" and have the high beams and aux. lights fail in a safe condition.
I do not want to be caught without lights.
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Unread 01-09-2010, 02:19 PM   #12
jeepskate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ-Steve View Post
I plan on using hood or windshield hinge brackets for the aux. lights. There will only be one on each side for a total of two. I need them above the front head lights, but not above the top of the jeep. There is a game rack in the front, so when I have a deer loaded in it, the headlights get obscured. Likewise, a light bar above the roof line would get snagged on low hanging branchs.
You'll want to select a pencil beam spot as the run of the mill off road lights will do more to light up your hood with that placement than light up what's in front of you.

Quote:
I would like the aux. lights slaved to the engine so they can only be "On" with the engine running and an interior switch in the "On" position. When the engine is turned off, the aux. lights should go off, regardless if the interior switch is in the "on" position. The interior switch controls the aux. lights only with the engine running.
Engine running (you'll need to do the oil pressure switch deal that JeepHammer mentioned) or ignition on? If it's ignition on, then simply tap into an ignition switched source (I think the radio lead is ignition switched) to feed the switch.

Quote:
If I understand your reply, the basic wiring should be as below:
1. The primary (low beam) lights should be controlled and get its power from the interior on/off pull switch.
That one is your call. I'm a bit of failsafe guy myself, but the trade-off in doing this is that you give up the gains on your low beams. Of course this may not matter to you given your usage, so do what fits with your needs.

Quote:
2. The high beams should get power from a separate power line to a relay that is slaved to the factory dimmer switch.
Correct.

Quote:
3. The aux. lights should get power from another separate power line to a relay that is slaved to a switch inside the cab.
Correct...this is the typical install method for aux lights.

Quote:
I agree, " I DO WANT MY PRIMARY LIGHTS TO COME BACK ON AT ALL COSTS!" and have the high beams and aux. lights fail in a safe condition.
I do not want to be caught without lights.
I'd advise you to carry a spare floor dimmer switch. They're notorious for failure and can leave you with no lights...BTDT with a Jeep and Bronco.
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'83 Scrambler: time & money pit under construction with parts from CJ's,YJ's,TJ's,FSJ's,GM,Ford,IH,Honda,Toyota and a whole lotta aftermarket & custom stuff.
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Unread 01-09-2010, 02:23 PM   #13
jeepskate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtex1 View Post
I would like to wire so that all of my lights come on at dusk and off at dawn. Light sensing. Any ideas? Relay and a light sensor?
More trouble than it is worth. I've had two vehicles with this 'feature' and about the only time it worked correctly was on the 7th day of never. Half of the time when the lights should've been on, they weren't and when they shouldn't have been on (bright, sunshiney day) they were on. This is one of those things that seems cool until you actually experience it. K.I.S.S

To do it 'correctly', you would need a light switch with an additional position so that you have the automatic control but can still fall back on manual control.
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'83 Scrambler: time & money pit under construction with parts from CJ's,YJ's,TJ's,FSJ's,GM,Ford,IH,Honda,Toyota and a whole lotta aftermarket & custom stuff.
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Unread 01-09-2010, 03:48 PM   #14
CJ-Steve
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Thanks jeepskate for the information. I like your suggestion of using a pencil beam for the aux. lights and for carrying a spare dimmer switch. Quadtrec has them for $6.00 + P&H.

I knew I should have waited before I ordered that new on/off headlight switch from them last night.

There is an '80 CJ7 on the same lease that is on its third dimmer switch and that one needs replacing. The primary and high beams go out when you switch to the high beams.

Thanks again.
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Unread 01-10-2010, 08:37 AM   #15
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ-Steve View Post
I plan on using hood or windshield hinge brackets for the aux. lights. There will only be one on each side for a total of two. I need them above the front head lights, but not above the top of the jeep. There is a game rack in the front, so when I have a deer loaded in it, the headlights get obscured. Likewise, a light bar above the roof line would get snagged on low hanging branchs.
Good thinking.
All light bars do around here is bend the windshield frame/roof/brackets when they get snagged.
LOTS of low limbs in deer country!

Same with under the bumper lights.
I see lights under the bumper and I already know that guy has never been further off road than a lap around the yard!

JeepSkate comes up with a valid point,
Most hood mounted lights just blind you with the reflection of the hood!
When I use hinge mounted lights they are almost EXCLUSIVELY for side view so they don't blind the crap out of me while I'm driving.

Spot, or 'Pencil' focused bulbs will help, so will painting your hood, fender tops flat colors, but in the end, it's STILL very hard to see what you are about to hit with the hood blinding you...
-------------------------------

Have you considered mounting your lights ON TOP OF the game rack?
Like they do with snow blades, mount them on post or hoop above the hood/game rack line?,
Forward of the hood front edge.

I have lights mounted above my snow plow, and they work GREAT most of the time...
(Everybody thinks you are bright lighting them, so you get flashed a lot!)

May look 'Goofy' but that will solve a BUNCH of 'Issues' right off the start...
----------------------------------

Quote:
I would like the aux. lights slaved to the engine so they can only be "On" with the engine running and an interior switch in the "On" position.
VERY easy to do!

Oil pressure switch excites light relay,
Interior switch controls 'Ground' to that relay.
You DO NOT have a 'hot' line into the vehicle to power up the relay, no 'HOT' return line to get pinched, rubbed through to cause problems...

You should already have an oil pressure switch in '80 Up for the electric choke,
So that should be an issue.
Have a look at the engine block behind the distributor and coil if it's an I-6 engine...
There should be a 'T' sticking out of the block with a large, and a small 'Switches'...
The large is the sending unit for the gauge,
The small is the switch for the electric choke.

You simply have to slave your relay 'Excite' wire to the 'Excite' wire for the electric choke and you are off to the races with an 'ENGINE RUNNING ONLY' switch.

Run the 'Ground' for the relay to a switch on the dash, then ground the other terminal of the switch.

Engine will have to be running with oil pressure 'UP' and dash switch 'ON' before the Excite circuit for the relay closes and the lights come 'ON'.

VERY SIMPLE and just this side of 'Fool Proof'...

I'll do you a diagram of that circuit, just give me a little time.
People don't realize these diagrams take between 1 and 5 hours to do,
so there is some lag time in the presentation!
--------------------------

Quote:
If I understand your reply, the basic wiring should be as below:
1. The primary (low beam) lights should be controlled and get its power from the interior on/off pull switch.
YES!
If you want to put a 'Hidden' switch in that circuit so kids don't mess with things, that's fine,
but the 'Low Beams' are your life line in most cases, and they should be SACRED and as simple as possible.

------------------------------------------------

Quote:
2. The high beams should get power from a separate power line to a relay that is slaved to the factory dimmer switch.
When I keep normal bulbs in the Jeep,
I leave the factory wiring in place.

When I switch to Halogens, I wire in a Relay to supply power to the high beams,
ESPECIALLY if I've hot wired the low beams to stay 'On' when the high beams are 'On'.

That's just too much stress on the factory wiring/headlight switch, ect.

If you do the 'Added Light' jumper, then your head light switch is trying to burn BOTH filaments in the bulbs at the same time when you are on 'Bright',
That more than doubles the load on the switch, breaker, wires, ect.

If you switch to halogens or some other high intensity light,
OR,
If you do the 'Jumper' for low beams to stay on when the switch is on,
Then you SHOULD wire in a relay for the high beams.

It's VERY SIMPLE,
You simply use the factory feed for the high beams as the 'Excite' for the relay,
And supply the relay with a FUSED source from the starter relay...
Then the relay takes over the supply duties for the high beams,
The head light switch only has to power up the 'Low' beams (and one relay which is inconsequential),




And the factory head light switch/wiring gets a BIG BREAK,
You get MUCH more light, and everyone is happy.
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3. The aux. lights should get power from another separate power line to a relay that is slaved to a switch inside the cab.
NOPE.
No reason to run 'Hot' wires into the cab because you just have to run them back out again, and every 'Hot' circuit is a potential fire...

Supply the 'Hot' from the starter relay through a breaker or fuse.
Connect that to a relay. The lights connect to the other side of the relay.
(#30 'IN from starter relay', #87 'Out to lights')
That is your 'LOAD' circuit.

Supply 'SIGNAL' or 'EXCITE' from oil pressure switch to #85 terminal on the relay.
That will shut the light off if there is no oil pressure, like when the engine isn't running.




Run a SINGLE 'Ground' wire into the cab from terminal #86,
Connect it to a switch on the dash or where ever...
Connect the other side of that switch to 'Ground'.
That will be your MANUAL control of the relay.

Oil pressure MUST be 'Up'... AND, the switch has to be 'ON' for the lights to work. Simple yet effective.
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I agree, " I DO WANT MY PRIMARY LIGHTS TO COME BACK ON AT ALL COSTS!" and have the high beams and aux. lights fail in a safe condition.
I do not want to be caught without lights.
GOOD MAN!
Any light is 'Good Light' when you are driving after dark!
Don't want to mess around looking for a flashlight at 60 MPH to find a safe spot to get off the road with a 'Dead' vehicle!

Last edited by JeepHammer; 01-10-2010 at 04:39 PM..
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