Replacing lifters, top end rebuild - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 23 Old 08-18-2017, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
JKtaxman
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Replacing lifters, top end rebuild

Just got my '85 CJ-7 258 a few weeks ago and am loving it. This is my 7th Jeep, but it's also the oldest Jeep I've owned by 4 years. Body is clean, little to no frame rust and in overall great shape. Engine has 65k original miles confirmed by original owners. I rebuilt the clutch and transmission two weeks ago and she runs great. I'm running 20W50 with 10% MMO, but am still getting some lifter noise once the engine gets hot (about 20 min.). I'm thinking I may need to replace the lifters, but am wondering if anyone has other possible solutions. If I'm going to remove the cover and replace lifters, I may as well do a top end rebuild and replace push rods, rockers and springs.

Timing is not critical since I only drive it on weekends and don't wheel it hard. I don't mind the noise occasionally, but don't want to cause additional damage. I'm thinking I need to take care of this in the next few months.

Comments anyone? Advice?

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post #2 of 23 Old 08-18-2017, 09:54 AM
Matt1981CJ7
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If any lifters are bad, it should be evident by removing the valve cover and wiggling the pushrods after the engine has run for a bit. If any of pushrods are loose, and/or have any up/down movement, that indicates the lifter has collapsed, or isn't holding oil pressure, and that lifter needs to be replaced.

Good luck, and let us know what you find.

Matt


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post #3 of 23 Old 08-18-2017, 10:38 AM
shadoow
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[QUOTE=J If I'm going to remove the cover and replace lifters, I may as well do a top end rebuild and replace push rods, rockers and springs.

Comments anyone? Advice?[/QUOTE]

pretty sure you have to remove the head to replace lifters in the 258
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post #4 of 23 Old 08-18-2017, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
JKtaxman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadoow View Post
pretty sure you have to remove the head to replace lifters in the 258
Ouch. I certainly hope not. From photos I've seen on the interwebz, I was hoping I could use a magnet to pull out the lifter without removing the head. I would probably change pushrods if they're bent or damaged as well as springs if they have no bounce left in them and rockers if they show significant signs of wear. I'm hoping this is a one-day job.

Thanks.
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post #5 of 23 Old 08-18-2017, 12:58 PM
Matt1981CJ7
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The head has to come off to get to the lifters on a 258. No question about it.

That's why I recommended checking them first, above.

Matt


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post #6 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 03:33 AM
gmakra1
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And you should replace the cam and lifters as a set.
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post #7 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 06:18 AM
pedal2themetai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKtaxman View Post
Timing is not critical since I only drive it on weekends and don't wheel it hard. I don't mind the noise occasionally, but don't want to cause additional damage. I'm thinking I need to take care of this in the next few months.
Hi, With this statement .. JKtaxman has no clue.. Yes timing it critical.. timing can make it make noise, not run good, cause excess fuel use, and damage internally to the motor.. yes you have to remove the head to replace the lifters.. How do you plan on replacing the springs?? using rope? air pressure to hold up the valve?
good luck
tim
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post #8 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedal2themetai View Post
Hi, With this statement .. JKtaxman has no clue.. Yes timing it critical.. timing can make it make noise, not run good, cause excess fuel use, and damage internally to the motor.. yes you have to remove the head to replace the lifters.. How do you plan on replacing the springs?? using rope? air pressure to hold up the valve?
good luck
tim
With this statement you lack reading comprehension. He didn't say the spark timing was not critical, has said the timeframe to fix the issue is not critical as it is a low use vehicle.

Op, if you are tearing it down to do cam and lifters, I would suggest taking the extra steps needed to replace the cam bearings. They will help keep oil pressure up and keep correct flow to the lifters.

80 CJ-5, 74 CJ-6, 56 CJ-5
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post #9 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 07:31 AM
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedal2themetai View Post
Hi, With this statement .. JKtaxman has no clue.. Yes timing it critical.. timing can make it make noise, not run good, cause excess fuel use, and damage internally to the motor.. yes you have to remove the head to replace the lifters.. How do you plan on replacing the springs?? using rope? air pressure to hold up the valve?
good luck
tim
Tim,

I think the OP was talking about the timing of the necessary repairs, as in this week or next week or a month from now, not the ignition timing.

Either way, I don't think it's necessary for you to slam him like that. That's the kinda crap you see at Pirate4x4, not here.

Matt
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post #10 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 07:46 AM
pedal2themetai
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Sorry JKtaxman and everyone.. I need to take a break I think.. seams I've been going off the handle lately..
Ton's of family medical issues lately.. Mom (brain bleed) and wife (kidney failure on transplant list) all in the last 3 months. think its got me wired and not thinking.. Take care good luck Jktaxman..
tim
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post #11 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 07:54 AM
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^^^ One of my Uncles kidneys are failing. My prayers go out to you, please reciprocate. OP, in the small block Chevy world we have a heck of a time not flattening lobes on a cam with today's reformulated oils lacking in the necessary additives. I would never install new lifters on an old cam. Asking for a flat lobe. It's hard enough to keep the cam/lifters in good shape with everything broke in together. IDK perhaps these 258 cams are made of unobtainium and are much more forgiving.
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post #12 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 08:15 AM
Matt1981CJ7
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I'm sure the cam lobe design has something to do with the likelihood of flattening, as well. Perhaps these fairly round CJ cams aren't as prone to it, but who knows.

Interestingly, the FSM only recommends replacing the cam if any of the lifter faces are concave, which would indicate the corresponding lobe on the cam is also worn. That said, I too would be leery of just replacing lifters without replacing the cam too.

Unfortunately, that's probably not what the OP was hoping to hear.

Matt


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post #13 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmakra1 View Post
And you should replace the cam and lifters as a set.
If he were to replace the CAM, can he put in a slightly better performing one or does that involve upgrading other areas? Always wondered if a CAM alone could be swapped for a better one.
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post #14 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 11:59 AM
gunsanddaisys
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Depends on how radical the cam is. High revving cams designed for horsepower would probably need upgraded internals. Getting a cam in the original Rev range that opens the lift up a bit should be fine on stock internals as long as the intake and exhaust can flow it.
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post #15 of 23 Old 08-19-2017, 04:21 PM
gmakra1
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Its a glorified tractor engine, just go with a stock grind.
Matt you are correct on the FSM however the EPA made the oil companies remove zinc (ZDDP cant even spell it) maybe about 10 years ago.
That caused a lot of cam failures since you have a hardened steel lifter riding on a cast iron cam and nothing to lube the lobe of the camshaft.
As long as the components wear together everything is copacetic though when you introduce a new lifter to a cam the wear pattern needs to be reestablished.
Unfortunately that usually results in a worn lobe.
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