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Unread 01-04-2010, 02:57 PM   #16
desert_driller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Xtreme View Post
Yesterday I 'attempted' to fix my cold idle issues using the following procedure:

Easy Fix for Jeep 258 Carter BBD Idle Problem


My question is this-
Are these 'side holes' supposed to face in the same direction (toward the carb throat, I assume)?

Thanks in advance

2X
I had my carb opened up yesterday to adjust the vacuum piston assembly and took off the idle tube assembly to check if it was clear. I got a good look at the screws with the side holes. Those two screws are different. there is a left one and a right one. The hole in the screw should line up with the hole in the idle tube assembly. On the head of the screw, mark where the hole is. Tighten it down and see if it seats correctly.

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Unread 01-04-2010, 02:57 PM   #17
2Xtreme
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Hmm.... Sounds like a piece of cake- just like the procedure I started with.... Lmao!
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Unread 01-04-2010, 03:16 PM   #18
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert_driller View Post
I got a good look at the screws with the side holes. Those two screws are different. there is a left one and a right one. The hole in the screw should line up with the hole in the idle tube assembly. On the head of the screw, mark where the hole is. Tighten it down and see if it seats correctly.
That is interesting. I have taken apart a whole pile of the feedback BBD's and mine many times over the years and have never paid attention to left or right on those screws nor have I ever seen it documented.

I have paid attention to the orientation of the slots for the screwdriver though and they always end up the same as far as I can remember. Like this one that is a bit blurry with one side 'maybe' slightly tighter than the other side:
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Unread 01-04-2010, 08:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert_driller View Post
....Those two screws are different. there is a left one and a right one. The hole in the screw should line up with the hole in the idle tube assembly....
Interesting, indeed...

Now the question is, how do I tell them apart and which is which???
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Unread 01-05-2010, 06:32 AM   #20
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Xtreme View Post
Interesting, indeed...

Now the question is, how do I tell them apart and which is which???
As mentioned, I have rebuilt literally dozens of them and I have never paid attention to that and every carb I helped rebuild has worked perfectly 'and' they all had to pass emissions.

No carb kit directions nor the Haynes mention this also.

Parts that are left or right or reverse or anything special are marked as such. No marks, no left or right.

I think desert driller needs to come up with some documentation on that.
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 01-05-2010, 09:39 AM   #21
desert_driller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
As mentioned, I have rebuilt literally dozens of them and I have never paid attention to that and every carb I helped rebuild has worked perfectly 'and' they all had to pass emissions.

No carb kit directions nor the Haynes mention this also.

Parts that are left or right or reverse or anything special are marked as such. No marks, no left or right.

I think desert driller needs to come up with some documentation on that.
Mike Romain, I really value you opinion. Your advice has guided me on many projects. So this is not a criticism, just my observation.

While I was putting the idle tube assembly back on I noticed that the holes where not in the same position on each screw, and one screw had a vertical line on the side of its head. Well, I am no expert, so I marked the idle assembly to note where the small vents from the idle tubes meet the screw holes. Then I marked the head of each screw so I knew where the side holes were in the screws. When I seated the screws, one way their holes matched up with the vents, if I switched them they didn't.

I figured that the automotive engineer who designed this wanted the vents lined up with the holes in the screws. He also wanted to know which screw is which, so he designed one with a line on the side of the head.

In any case, the two screws are different. I couldn't find any documentation on this in any manual or rebuild kit either, go figure.

Let me take this opportunity to thank you for all of the help you have given all of us here on the forum. There are so many of us who read every thread to try and find a solution to our jeep problems.
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Unread 01-05-2010, 10:20 AM   #22
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert_driller View Post
While I was putting the idle tube assembly back on I noticed that the holes where not in the same position on each screw, and one screw had a vertical line on the side of its head.
I am always willing to learn new things. I have the FSM so will read through there to see if they have any more info on this.

I would kinda think the odds are high that I have mixed those screws without noticing any difference.

Do your screw slots end up on the diagonal like in that photo?
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 01-05-2010, 10:53 AM   #23
Mike Romain
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Quote:
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I am always willing to learn new things. I have the FSM so will read through there to see if they have any more info on this.

I would kinda think the odds are high that I have mixed those screws without noticing any difference.

Do your screw slots end up on the diagonal like in that photo?
Ok, I read the FSM and the drawings and in the drawing they only specify the part as a cluster screw with no right or left indicated. They even just show one of them, not two.

In the assemble directions, they again only say to 'install the cluster screws and tighten securely'. Again no right or left.

I also think that the holes will end up in the same place no matter what side of the carb they are on because the screw slots always end up the same. If I remember right I might have checked this, it rings a bell but would have been 10+ years ago.

I will have to look at mine next time I open it just out of curiosity sake, but figure it shouldn't be an issue.

Here is a link to the FSM: 84-86 Factory Service Manual...
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 01-05-2010, 12:53 PM   #24
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After reassembly, my screws are not in the same orientation. Although I don’t remember how far from each other they are, I do know the difference is significant.

Based on Desert Driller’s information, I now have to wonder if one or both of the screws are not seated correctly. Leading me to the question which side does the ‘marked’ screw go on, driver’s side or passenger’s side.

Obviously, I could play around with them until they appeared to seat correctly. However, if my ‘marked’ screw ends up on the opposite side of Desert Driller’s, that either confirms that there is no significant difference in the two, or raises more questions…..

Or it confirms my longstanding belief that inside these complicated looking little chunks of metal is some sort of voodoo or black magic at work making them function….
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Unread 01-05-2010, 01:26 PM   #25
Mike Romain
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Or it confirms my longstanding belief that inside these complicated looking little chunks of metal is some sort of voodoo or black magic at work making them function….
I'll buy that, LOL! I have to figure if there is a difference the Factory Service Manual would have it noted or one of the many brands of carb kits I have bought over the years would have mentioned it or I would have found it by a performance change or even the emissions sniffer would pick it up at idle.
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 01-05-2010, 03:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
Ohh, but they run soo sweet after a fresh kit.... The kits are easy to put in, you just don't take apart anything you don't need to to clean it and be sure to use two wrenches on the gas line fitting. It is also the float bowl setting so has to be held with a wrench while the gas line gets tightened. That little steel chunk of gas line between the carb and filter needs a good clean also, it holds a lot of junk.
I just read the Moses Ludel CJ Rebuilder's Manual which has a detailed writeup of a BBD rebuild, including photos. Like everything else in this book the instructions aren't a replacement for a real shop manual, but he does provide some helpful hints. The photos are helpful too.
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Unread 01-05-2010, 09:20 PM   #27
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I have about a 1/2 dozen of these carbs that I keep for parts, I'll see how many of the clusters I have and see if there is any diff. But like Mike I have done a bunch of these and have never payed any attention to what hole I stuck what screw into. Just a few more thoughts to muddy up the water. Are all the gaskets from all the manufactured exactly the same thickness? Maybe The carb that DD has had one of those replaced, maybe from a pick a part. I pickup a vacuum piston and metering rods from a AMC Eagle the piston was the same but the metering rods were smaller. Maybe 1 screw is from a non feedback and 1 is from a feedback carb
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Unread 01-05-2010, 11:03 PM   #28
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Hi wrongway. Take a close look at the head of the screw. there is a very slight indentation/line on the side of one of them. Also the holes in the screws are different from one another. Simply put, there must be a left and a right.

If you can, and it would be a great help to all of us, Which is the left and which is the right? I could pull my carb and figure it out, but I really don't want to. If yours is out, Please take a look.
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Unread 01-06-2010, 12:02 AM   #29
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I will give it a good look, I think I have a couple that already has the top off. If If can I will get some pic's!
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Unread 01-06-2010, 11:33 AM   #30
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In reading through 82CJ_Chemist’s post Carter BBD#2: won't idle when warmed up, I noticed several mentions of the High Idle Cam.

I never gave any consideration to this cam when doing any of the adjustments thus far, except that I didn't think it appeared to 'work' right.

I assume I should have set the high idle with the screw on the second 'step' of the cam
I am not sure that was the case (hope to look at it tonight).
What controls the position of the cam so that it is oriented with the second 'step' @ the screw?
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