Quick Carter BBD Question? - Idle - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 29 Old 07-19-2017, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Cj Quick Carter BBD Question? - Idle

Folks, I have a quick question and before I start messing with screws here and there, I wanted to ask upfront what the issue might be. So don't bust my chops! I have the manual here but wanted to simply ask others before I possibly make things worse, lol. You know how that goes.

Okay, I have the Carter BBD on a 258 ('85) which was replaced (remanufactured) when I did my smog last. So it's fairly new. There is nothing wrong with the performance at all. Keep this in mind! The issue is the idle. The last couple of days the idle seems to stay high. In other words, before this, it would start up, idle high (1600 rpm) then after about 2-3 minutes and a pump of the pedal, it would idle down to 680 rpm; PERFECT! Lately, it doesn't seem to want to drop idle at all. It stays high for much longer than it was previously and I manually have to open the hood and tinker with the linkage and the small step down plate. So, if I am inside the Jeep and it's idling HIGH, I would normally give it a pump and it drops after she's warmed up. Now, no matter how many times I pump it from the pedal, the darn idle won't drop. So, I find myself having to pull over to open the hood in a panic, lol, and literally moving the linkage up and down until the idle drops. Once I do this, it seems to perform as it should. It seems like the linkage is sticking but where I don't exactly know? Again, once I do this, it is fine the rest of the day. Something is not right!

I do NOT want to mess with the two idle screws because it runs spot on and idles perfectly once it warms up and I tinker with the linkage. Could it be a lubrication issue with the throttle plate, linkage or spring? When I pull the air cover off, I can see that the throttle plate appears to stick a little, however, I just don't know if it is actually sticking OR if this is normal since I have never had this issue before. Where can I lube to ease this movement? (i.e., TP pivot points, the step down plate, cable, etc.)

I am leaning toward the choke possibly needing adjustment too because it does seem to run fine after a long time of warming up. Prior to the rebuild being installed, it would idle for about a minute or so, and after a pedal pump, drop idle to normal. With this NEW carburetor, it idles for 2-4 minutes now and drops idle after it warms up as well. Up until now! This seems too long to me (3 minutes+) but it works and runs normal afterwards. It sticking has me worried I may idle it too long and cause internal engine damage. So, exactly what should I check and do just to simply lower the idle time without moving those screws? Where do these carbs normally tend to stick? Again, I do NOT want to mess with the two screws. They are set fine! Any advice???

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post #2 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 12:31 AM
only in a jeep cj
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On the round choke spring body, check that your wire is still attached. Check that it's getting 12 volts once engine is running.
Check that the choke plate is moving free. On opposite side, check that the step cam is free and not hanging up.
It sounds like the manifold heat is opening your choke and not the electric spring.

Ed
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post #3 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 08:01 AM
JeepdaddyRC
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The stepped cam that effects your idle speed is controlled by the choke. Think of the electric choke as a timer that slowly rotates the cam - thus bringing the idle down step by step. The timer can be slowed down (and higher idle maintained longer) by turning your choke clockwise. Turning counter-clockwise will speed up the process and high idle will come off sooner. This only works if the linkages are moving freely and your electric choke is operational.
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post #4 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by only in a jeep cj View Post
On the round choke spring body, check that your wire is still attached. Check that it's getting 12 volts once engine is running.
Check that the choke plate is moving free. On opposite side, check that the step cam is free and not hanging up.
It sounds like the manifold heat is opening your choke and not the electric spring.
I'll check all the linkage right now and see what's hanging; if anything. Thanks
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post #5 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepdaddyRC View Post
The stepped cam that effects your idle speed is controlled by the choke. Think of the electric choke as a timer that slowly rotates the cam - thus bringing the idle down step by step. The timer can be slowed down (and higher idle maintained longer) by turning your choke clockwise. Turning counter-clockwise will speed up the process and high idle will come off sooner. This only works if the linkages are moving freely and your electric choke is operational.
So, looking at the carburetor form the valve cover side, I think I need to turn it counter-clockwise. How much turn do I begin with? Is it noticeable immediately? In other words; how much gives me minimal and how much turn gives me maximum results? I don't want to overdo and mess things up. I will check the wire as well to make sure it's not dry and brittle within. Cheers
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post #6 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 12:48 PM
Matt1981CJ7
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FYI, 2-4 minutes is normal warm up time for an electric choke. I adjust mine for around 4 minutes in the winter, and around 2 minutes in the summer.

As for adjustment, it doesn't take much. Give yourself a reference mark, so you know where it was set. From there 1/16" - 1/8" in ether direction is all it should need.

Matt


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post #7 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
FYI, 2-4 minutes is normal warm up time for an electric choke. I adjust mine for around 4 minutes in the winter, and around 2 minutes in the summer.

As for adjustment, it doesn't take much. Give yourself a reference mark, so you know where it was set. From there 1/16" - 1/8" in ether direction is all it should need.

Matt
Okay, thanks. Does the choke performance change with heat; weather. It's been really hot and I have never noticed this issue before, not even in winter. So, I start it, it idles for a while and even after the 3-4 minutes and the gauge reads the right temp, it will NOT idle down. I need to find a special tool to get to the choke screws. I may have to remove the carb because they are right there at valve cover. The mechanic did change the screws however and made them flathead capable. I have a small angle tool around here somewhere. I'll go 1/16" then see what happens. I'll increase as I go. Thanks!
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post #8 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 12:58 PM
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Take an air hose and blow out all the linkage pivot points
A small amount of lock lube works wonders here.
Ck the carb's screws and mounting nuts to be sure they are 'tite'.
Also check your manifold bolts/nuts too.
LG

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post #9 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 258
Okay, thanks. Does the choke performance change with heat; weather. It's been really hot and I have never noticed this issue before, not even in winter. So, I start it, it idles for a while and even after the 3-4 minutes and the gauge reads the right temp, it will NOT idle down. I need to find a special tool to get to the choke screws. I may have to remove the carb because they are right there at valve cover. The mechanic did change the screws however and made them flathead capable. I have a small angle tool around here somewhere. I'll go 1/16" then see what happens. I'll increase as I go. Thanks!
The e-ckoke opening is a timed event from the moment it receives power. Outside air temps make no difference.

I use a small pocket screwdriver for the choke housing screws. See pic.

Matt
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post #10 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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Cj video

This is what it is doing. https://youtu.be/hLRUjVO6fQY
The idle is high and it has been warming up for 4-5 minutes. I have to manually take it down.
I have not touched the CHOKE, which will be tomorrow morning.
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post #11 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 01:26 PM
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Choke is fully opened in your video. The fast idle cam linkage may be binding somewhere. Especially if this is a new problem and you have not recently adjusted your choke.
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post #12 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepdaddyRC View Post
Choke is fully opened in your video. The fast idle cam linkage may be binding somewhere. Especially if this is a new problem and you have not recently adjusted your choke.
Hmmm? I lubed all points with a Friction Modifier Oil so that's done. The carb is a new install when I was having smog related issue's. I was going to rebuild the old one and just had a new one put in. That's why it looks so CLEAN. The previous one was really old. Anyway, I have not touched it since it was installed. It has been running well other than what I mentioned previously; that the idle seemed to run longer than I remember. But I understand now that this is normal.

So, with the previous carb, I would start it and it would idle high (1650 rpm) for about a minute-minute and a half. Then I'd pump it and it would step-down for another minute at around 1200 rpm. Then I'd give it a final pump and it would drop to 680 rpm; idle speed. PERFECT! Not so lately. I found the little tool but it's TOO hot right now and its in direct sun. Also, the engine is already warmed up from previous trials to fix it. I will take the choke back the 1/16" in the morning and see if it responds well. I think this may be the issue? Every thing else is spot on.

Let me ask something:

Is it normal for the choke wire (spade) to go from choke terminal to TWO wires? It is attached to TWO(2) wires that are red w white tracers.
It always has been this way but wondering if the wire is compromised somewhere. I see one goes to the coil and the other to a elongated plug at firewall harness.
Also, the spade terminal was loose so that's been tightened. Last test; the CHOKE!
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post #13 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 02:11 PM
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Your wiring sounds normal. As long as there is power to the choke wire, any time the engine is running, the wiring is correct. A test light comes in handy for testing these things.

Matt


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post #14 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 03:46 PM
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Actually the wires should go to your manifold heater relay were it gets power from the oil pressure switch and the other wire should go the the diagnostic port next to the battery.


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post #15 of 29 Old 07-20-2017, 06:19 PM
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Are you running 2 throttle return springs as was OEM? You should be.
Disco the throttle linkage at the ball joint on the carb. Anything different now?
LG

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