Quadratrec question - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > Quadratrec question

XJ Rail Sale!The Ruffstuff NOT Universal 4 Link Kit!Vanco Big Brake Kit Promotion!

Reply
Unread 01-07-2012, 07:44 PM   #1
mytjtoy
CJ--my drug of choice!
 
mytjtoy's Avatar
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 632
Quadratrec question

I have 3 other 4 wheel drive vehicles and I know when they are in 4 wheel drive and on dry pavement it really shakes and grabs in turns but does a quadratrec do that allt he time since each tire gets 25% of the traction?

Also, I installed a new speedometer gage and after a day of driving the red idiot "AMP" light came on. What does this mean on this vehicle?

mytjtoy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 08:12 PM   #2
lucdog
Web Wheeler
 
lucdog's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: , Il.
Posts: 8,106
Although the Q-trac is full time 4x4, there are spider gears in both axles and the transfer case, that also has cone clutches. In normal drive the power is sent to one axle, until a loss of traction is seen. When the loss happends the clutches engage sending power to the other axle. In emergency drive a collar slides connecting the front and rear together. With no traction aid there would still only 2 wheels driving, a front and rear, because of the axle spiders.

On edit, of all the jeeps I have, non of them have a amp light. In any vehicle, that light, to me, would indicate a battery/charging problem

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
lucdog is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 08:26 PM   #3
jumbojeepman
Registered User
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Although the Q-trac is full time 4x4, there are spider gears in both axles and the transfer case, that also has cone clutches. In normal drive the power is sent to one axle, until a loss of traction is seen.

Bill
Nope, power is sent to both axles normally. It there is a loss of traction the clutches keep providing to the axle with more traction (exactly like a limited slip differential.) You need emergency drive (which locks the front and rear driveshafts together) if one wheel totally loses traction (i.e. ice or in the air.)
jumbojeepman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 08:57 PM   #4
jeepdaddy2000
Registered User
1971 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Secret Squirrel hideout, afghanistan
Posts: 6,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Although the Q-trac is full time 4x4, there are spider gears in both axles and the transfer case, that also has cone clutches. In normal drive the power is sent to one axle, until a loss of traction is seen. When the loss happends the clutches engage sending power to the other axle. In emergency drive a collar slides connecting the front and rear together. With no traction aid there would still only 2 wheels driving, a front and rear, because of the axle spiders.

On edit, of all the jeeps I have, non of them have a amp light. In any vehicle, that light, to me, would indicate a battery/charging problem

Bill
Close, but not quite. The Q trac provides power to all four tires. The diff in the t case allows the front and rear drivelines to rotate at different speeds. This is necessary, since the distance the front tires cover in a turn is different than the distance the rears cover. There is a problem, however. If any tire looses traction, it will be the only one spinning. So if you were to jack up the left front tire and put the truck in drive, the diff in the t case would spin, the front driveline would spin, the front diff would spin, the left axle and tire would spin. Everything else would sit there and laugh at you. This describes the system in the early 70's trucks running the NP203 t case. The limited slip in the BW unit biases some power to the axle with traction. While this is helpful during average driving on slippery roads, it still may not be enough in such mediums as mud or ice. The e drive locks the front and rear drivelines together. This means that even if the left front tire is off the ground, it will not be able to spin till one of the rear tires breaks traction.
For someone wanting a full time system, it was the best out there at the time and very advanced. The downfall was the LS unit wearing out and the chain stretching. It also required a special fluid for the LS to keep it from chattering. Installing a part time kit eliminated the LS diff and allowed you to unlock the front hubs, effectively turning it into a conventional part time system.
Newer full time cases replaced the LS unit with a viscus coupler and centered the output shaft. This took the weight of the entire vehicle off the chain, forcing it to turn the front axle only. There is still a lock feature, since the viscus coupler will "slip" in high bias situations, much like it's earlier LS cousin.
jeepdaddy2000 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 09:03 PM   #5
lucdog
Web Wheeler
 
lucdog's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: , Il.
Posts: 8,106
Must have had a brain fart, Thanks for the correction. The OP's avatar keep diverting my attention. OP, don't change it.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
lucdog is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 09:08 PM   #6
mytjtoy
CJ--my drug of choice!
 
mytjtoy's Avatar
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 632
Thanks for the info. As far as the "Amp" light on my new gauge, I do not know if the orginal had it or not. Threw it away before the new one showed the red amp light.
mytjtoy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 09:31 PM   #7
lucdog
Web Wheeler
 
lucdog's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: , Il.
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytjtoy View Post
Thanks for the info. As far as the "Amp" light on my new gauge, I do not know if the orginal had it or not. Threw it away before the new one showed the red amp light.
Is a picture possible? What brand of speedo? And what about the volt gauge.

Sorry about so many Questions.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
lucdog is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 09:41 PM   #8
mytjtoy
CJ--my drug of choice!
 
mytjtoy's Avatar
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Is a picture possible? What brand of speedo? And what about the volt gauge.

Sorry about so many Questions.

Bill
Volts stay about 14 or so. It's whatever Quadratec sells as a replacement. I heard there have been issues with them. UGH!
mytjtoy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 10:09 PM   #9
mytjtoy
CJ--my drug of choice!
 
mytjtoy's Avatar
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 632
Here is what I ordered and you can see the amp and oil idiot small lights.

http://www.quadratec.com/products/55209_00.htm

My old one looked like this except mine went to 90mph. You can see the indicator lights are different:

http://www.quadratec.com/products/55209_01.htm
mytjtoy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 10:23 PM   #10
lucdog
Web Wheeler
 
lucdog's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: , Il.
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytjtoy View Post
Volts stay about 14 or so. It's whatever Quadratec sells as a replacement. I heard there have been issues with them. UGH!
So the speedo has signal lights, 4wd light, brake light, Hi beam, AND a amp light, wheres it at?.

Yep issues, and my wife wonders why I buy 200 to 700 dollar jeeps, yes there old parts, of the 13 or so jeeps I bought in the last 5 years, all of the speedos have worked, I've gotten good windshields, hinges, steering wheels, ect.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
lucdog is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 10:28 PM   #11
mytjtoy
CJ--my drug of choice!
 
mytjtoy's Avatar
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 632
Well that's another issue. My new speedo with a new cable jumps all over the place. UUUUGH!
mytjtoy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 10:31 PM   #12
Tylerzap
Registered User
1998 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Asheboro, NC
Posts: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytjtoy View Post
I have 3 other 4 wheel drive vehicles and I know when they are in 4 wheel drive and on dry pavement it really shakes and grabs in turns but does a Quadratrac do that allt he time since each tire gets 25% of the traction?

Also, I installed a new speedometer gage and after a day of driving the red idiot "AMP" light came on. What does this mean on this vehicle?
as you have been told, there is a Differential in the Transfercase, and axles.
A normal 4x4 has them in axles, but not in transfercase.

So, having the T/C diff, it sends power to the axles with the least amount of power, and the Diff in the axles send to wheel with least traction.

Because of this, in the non LOCK position, you only get power to 1 wheel. As in a normal 4x4 in 2wd. it just has the ability to go to all four insted of only 2

Now, in your glove compartment, there should be a round thing you can turn, that chooses wheather the T/C is in lock or not. in lock, you get power sent to both front and rear axles at the same time, exacly like a normal 4x4.
__________________
My 98 XJ "Zap" Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/zap-98-xj-build-1462622/

1988 Jeep Comanche 4x4 Longbed - POS
Tylerzap is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-07-2012, 10:47 PM   #13
lucdog
Web Wheeler
 
lucdog's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: , Il.
Posts: 8,106
I wonder if the ones in the first link were ever stock, I currently have a 76,78, 79, 80, 83, 84, and a 85. the're all like the second link. had a 77 with the same one. It would be nice to have the light in addition to the guage. the light would get your attention.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
lucdog is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-08-2012, 12:48 AM   #14
jumbojeepman
Registered User
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylerzap View Post
as you have been told, there is a Differential in the Transfercase, and axles.
A normal 4x4 has them in axles, but not in transfercase.

So, having the T/C diff, it sends power to the axles with the least amount of power, and the Diff in the axles send to wheel with least traction.

Because of this, in the non LOCK position, you only get power to 1 wheel. As in a normal 4x4 in 2wd. it just has the ability to go to all four insted of only 2
Also not quite right. An open differential is limited by the wheel with the least torque, but shares the power equally up until that point. This means that if one wheel starts slipping at 25 ft/lbs of torque, the other wheel can also put down 25 ft/lbs of torque, and you will have a total of 50 ft/lbs or torque moving the vehicle forward. If you give the vehicle more gas that this, the wheel with the least traction (25 ft/lbs in this case) will start to spin, putting down zero ft/lbs of torque, and thus zero torque is applied to the other wheel on the axle, because the open diff ensures the same torque is applied to both wheels.

A limited slip unit has a bias ratio that tells you the multiplication factor from the torque limited wheel. For instance, if you have a bias ratio of 2:1, if the wheel with the least traction is limited to 25 ft/lbs, the other wheel will get 50 ft/lbs.

On a Quadratrac equipped Jeep, you will have an additional 2 wheels being driven, and the differential in the transfer case is a limited slip unit (I don't know the bias ratio, but let's say it's 2:1) This means if one wheel is limited to 25 ft/lbs, the other wheel on that axle will also get 25 ft/lbs, so that axle will get a total of 50 ft/lbs of torque before the wheel starts spinning. The other axle will get 100 ft/lbs of torque (50 ft/lbs * the bias ratio of 2) so in total the Jeep will get 150 ft/lbs (50+100) of torque moving it forward. Notice the dramatic difference the Quadratrac unit makes. With one wheel limited to 25 ft/lbs of torque, the Qadratrac Jeep puts down triple the power to the ground vs a 2wd vehicle with an open diff (150 ft/lbs vs. 50 ft/lbs.)
jumbojeepman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 01-08-2012, 11:29 AM   #15
skizriz
Web Wheeler
 
skizriz's Avatar
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: , Pa
Posts: 3,730
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytjtoy View Post
I have 3 other 4 wheel drive vehicles and I know when they are in 4 wheel drive and on dry pavement it really shakes and grabs in turns
DO NOT LOCK IN 4 WD ON DRY PAVEMENT !!!! Not trying to yell, but stressing that fact to keep you from having to make very expensive repairs some day.
__________________
78 CJ7 258 TH400/Dana18 SOA/stock YJ springs 35" General Grabbers.
skizriz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.