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Unread 09-17-2013, 02:11 PM   #61
lucdog
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Here's something to look at when you get home from work. I started about 9:30, finished at 2:00 This included DCing the battery, the starter, and cooling lines. Some things you'll want to have.
Dririte
The extension and swivel socket.

image-1408011312.jpg

After removing the transfer case from the tranny, a little fluid will run out. The same when the torque converter is pulled after the tranny is dropped.

To get started from where I left off, and before removing the cooling lines remove the vacuum modulator, this will make the lines a lot easier. After removing the bolt and clamp the modulator pulls out, a little fluid will come out.

image-1890486730.jpg



image-4179171645.jpg

Now remove the lines, yep, more fluid. I zip tied mine to the exhaust pipe.

image-4112877186.jpg

Torque converter bolts next if it hasn't been done yet.

With everything supported remove the tranny bolts. A little wigging will seperate the tranny from the engine. I moved the tranny back about a inch and started lowering, when its convenient remove the dip stick tube. Lower the tranny all the way.

image-4100069964.jpg

You'll find the tranny won't clear the frame rails. Using 2 jacks I raised the Jeep about 4" and raised the jack under the engine at the same time to prevent mount stress. There still won't be enough room, no problem, move the tranny and jack so the tail is facing you, when you pull it out raise the tail, this will lower the bell for clearance.

image-3752294341.jpg

Take those hold down straps off, before you even start.

Now your going to get some more fluid, like 2 qts. I would tip the tranny up on the tail shaft in a old 5 gallon bucket. The converter can be removed before tilting. Let it drain. Or set the tranny on the face of the bell housing, fluid WILL come out, so be ready for it.

Con'd

__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 02:21 PM   #62
lucdog
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I checked the torque on the flexplate (105 ft. Lbs.)



image-1168676096.jpg

You can see there isn't much too it.

Here's the flexplate side of the converter. Notice where it goes in the flexplate. Upon reassembly I would wire brush and put never seize on it.

image-4209309950.jpg

Here's a hint to remember when reinstalling the tranny.

image-2968413156.jpg

I duct taped the top 2 bolts in place, along with the tube bracket. ( after the tranny is back under the Jeep) this made a HUGE difference when getting the bolts started.

So my tranny is bolted in, torque converter bolted up, and cooling lines connected.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 03:01 PM   #63
skizriz
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Sweet Bill. A ton of good info there.
Im debating right now whether to start tearing it down now, or wait.
If i do it now, it will keep me from Being in a hurry until the adapter arrives. The down side, i cant Drive it anymore.

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Unread 09-17-2013, 06:49 PM   #64
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The nice thing about recently redoing the frame and welding in all new nuts for everything is that everything is easy to take apart. Anti seizing all of the bolts helps also.

Started out with a jack under the trans pan with a block of wood. The plan was to take the weight off enough to drop the belly pan for easy access to everything.
A few pumps of the jack, and I was surprised to see everything lift right up. The mount for the torque arm was torn in half, I just put it in over winter. It wasn't a poly mount, just a replacement from NAPA.
The bolts that hold the torque arm to the T-case were pulled out and dangling loose. There weren't many threads left, didn't really look close the see if the bolts stripped or the holes.

Dropped the belly pan, the ladder bar,and the driveshafts in pretty short order. The muffler was being a PITA, so I removed the entire exhaust. It leaked, rattled, and needed re-done anyhow.

Drained the oil from the Q-trac and pulled the low range unit. Didn't notice anything wonky looking there. All of the gears looked fine.


Proceeded to split the case, and found what I expected to find. This is the Morse chain, about a year old. It has seen some hard wheeling.




The good news is the everything else looks fine. The splines on the cones are OK, nothing looks broke or stripped.
If you want parts Bill, I can load up a large flat rate box for you. I don't plan on keeping anything, including the low range unit. You can have it all.
The chain.......that's another story. LOL

I dropped the trans pan to let it drain overnight. One of my favorite jobs to do. No matter how I try and do it, I always end up dumping it all over my head. At least ATF cleans up easily.
The ATF was a deep red, candy apple color. Still had a nice translucent color to it.
Here's some pictures of the pan. Just a very light coating of grey on the bottom. Wiper right off with my finger.




I'm hoping to hear that it looks good, and I shouldn't find any problems inside the trans.

That's about it for today. Hopefully I'll pull the trans tomorrow. The only thing left of the case is the front half bolted to the trans.
I like your idea about pushing the Jeep out once the trans is pulled. That will give me more room to set up a nice big table to work on. I can go straight out the door, and right back in when ready.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 07:34 PM   #65
lucdog
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This also might be a good time to weld a bung in the tranny pan. To the rear, and just even with the skid pan.
I'm curious how many miles on the Jeep/tranny? You probably know this, the 400 was used in some heavy duty applications. Including motorhomes. T o have one in a light weight Jeep, to me, is a plus. I would think 200K wouldn't be a problem.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 07:49 PM   #66
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It just recently flipped 100,000. The odometer may be the only original part left though. The axles have been swapped, the engine has numbers painted on the block like it came from a junkyard, the transfer case has been changed, the body, the frame, etc.....
As far as I can tell, the trans is original though. One of the few parts left.

That's why I didn't want to swap out the trans. It may be a little more work and money to do it the way I am doing it, but take care of it and the TH400 Dana 18 combo should be about indestructable in a lightweight CJ.

I wondered why they never put drain plugs in trans pans. Thought there may be a good reason why they didn't. I have been planning on installing a remote filter for it. One of those projects that keeps getting pushed to the back burner.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 08:23 PM   #67
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On the slack in the chain. I wonder what the slack would have measured thru the 1/8" pipe plug before the case was split. I would expect to see close to that much with out the outer bearings in the other 1/2 of the case.

It will be interesting to see what the clutch disc look like, and the 3rd gear and reverse bands look like when you get to that point.

Your going to want to reinstall the tranny pan for the jack. And do you see any small bits of brass in the bottom of the pan

Bill
Edit, do you see a magnet any where? They are normally stuck to the bottom inside of the pan. I am also wondering if GM of Jeep didnt use a cork gasket on the pan in the late '70's.
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #68
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As usual, I have more questions than answers :-).
I hope to get mine back together tomorrow.

B
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 03:07 AM   #69
skizriz
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Once i get the front half of the case out, ill check the chhain through the hole. After seeing how tight a new chain is, and the trouble getting everything in place with a new chain on, i dont expect to see much difference If any. If you did, i would suspect bad bearings in the front half of the case that is allowing movement.
If there was any movement, i think it would make it impossible to get the rear half of the case on after installing a new chain.
Ill check though once i get the front half off.

I didnt notice any brass, but it was getting dark aand i was losing light. Ill get a better look when i clean the pan. I installed a new filter about three years ago, so whats in the pan came in the last 20,000 or so.

At least ill have a warm ride to work today. I think Its barely cracking 40 right now.

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Unread 09-18-2013, 03:31 PM   #70
lucdog
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I probably should have posted this sooner. Sorry about that.


image-2193416998.jpg

It's a 3/8.
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 05:57 PM   #71
skizriz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
I probably should have posted this sooner. Sorry about that.



It's a 3/8.
I didn't expect to see those. I picked up a nice set of Snap On allen heads and torx heads at a flea market for $10 for each strip over the summer. Always needed a size I didn't have, and the price was right.

Here's what I got with the chain after bolting the case back together.
I could actually pull a little more slack into it with my magnetic picker upper thingey, but the welding rod is just touching the chain. I pushed it in with just a little pressure. By pulling the slack down, and a little more pressure in, I could probably get another 1/2" on the measurement.





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Unread 09-18-2013, 06:14 PM   #72
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Put in about 3 hours today. Everything went well. No surprises so far. I flipped open your post a time or two when I was ready to pull the trans apart, but you got me right back on track again.

The bolts that held the torque converter on weren't very tight at all. I put a 1/2" drive ratchet on the first one expecting to have to put some @$$ into it. A 1/4" drive would have done the job. They couldn't have been more that 15 ft/lbs, if that.
Normal????

I'm surprised I remembered to unhook everything. The linkage, plug at the firewall for the E-drive and kickdown wires, the cooler lines, and the vacuum line to the modulator.

Had a little problem getting the trans loose, but after hitting up your post again, it just took a little more muscle.

Found the good and bad about having 35" tires.
Bad.....working on a creeper is actually tiring unless you have Orangatan arms. Oil splashes a lot when falling from that height.
Good....once things are out of the way, you can sit upright underneath and work.
And the trans cleared the frame rail..


Got it out, and rolled the Jeep outside. The garage looks like a war zone. Tomorrow I will clean it up and scrub the floor good before I start tearing the trans down. I'll just be laying out a large section of cardboard to work on instead of trying to do it on the bench.
Got it cleaned up and in a bucket for the night to drain.


I hope it was OK to drain everything out of the torque converter???



Found out the motor almost balances on the mounts with the trans removed. I ran a ratchet strap from frame rail to frame rail, wondering if it would be enough to support the motor. I was surprised when after only a couple of cranks of the strap, the oil pan lifted right up off the jack that was supporting it. I could actually lift the back of the motor by hand.



I took a lot of different pictures of the parts along the way. I figure it's better to have too many, that the one I need and don't have.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 06:26 PM   #73
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I can't believe how small the 18 is compared to the Q-trac. That will be a BIG plus when I put the exhaust back on. Between my muffler, my rear shock setup, and my ladder bar, things were very tight back there.



I still need to remove my center console with the radio and CB installed in it so I can cut a hole in the floor.

Seeing this picture makes me think. Low range from Quadratrac mounted to Dana 18???? They make a bolt on over drive for them, why not underdrive....Hmmmmmmmmmm.............
Wish I had the machining ability to make it work.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 07:47 PM   #74
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Glad things went well! I loaned a friend a low range unit for the purpose you mentioned. I think he gave up on it.

Doesn't hurt a thing to drain the converter. New fluid will be pumped in. My tranny gut said to not put fluid back in for the reinstall. It will just make a mess ( I asked)
Good deal on the Allen sockets.

These suckers are heavy, aren't they, and the case is aluminum. Packed full of heavy parts though!

Blue loctite on the converter bolts when installing. I need to torque mine as well, google is in order for me.

Not a good day for me, the tranny output shaft bearing moved out a 1/4" drying the dismantle. So when I went to tighten the cast to the tranny I heard a crack. Yep, broken bolt flange.

image-2544066498.jpg

So that sucks. I'm leaving on the 26th for a trip to the sand dunes in Michigan. Lucky for me I have a spare case, it just needs the tranny shaft Input seal.

Now the interesting part starts for you.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-18-2013, 08:06 PM   #75
lucdog
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.

A google search turned up from 28 to 35 foot pounds on the torque converter to flex plate bolt torque. I'm going with 31 to 33. 30 to 35 was the most common. A post on pirate 4x4 said 44 fp. That's to much for a 5/16" bolt.

Any idea on a part number for the seal, I haven't had a luck yet. Calling BJ's tomorrow.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
lucdog is offline   Reply With Quote
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