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Unread 09-12-2013, 06:51 PM   #46
skizriz
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Mine already has a tube attached for the vent. I remember seeing it when I did the frame swap. It's not very long, and sure could be raised though.
It sits right near the base of the dipstick tube. Correct??

Found this link for a tailshaft replacement. Looks to be about what I have been looking for.
http://www.mudstruck.com/th400shft.htm

As long as I don't run into any problems, I'm feeling pretty confident I can pull this off.

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Unread 09-12-2013, 08:19 PM   #47
lucdog
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I think you'll find it takes longer to get everything off to pull the tranny, than actually pull it.
Maybe you can see the hose for the vent.

image-2756757140.jpg

And you are correct, I can't believe this holds up to the forces applied to it.

image-2555749905.jpg

Bill

Ps, I'll let you know what the spiders look like.

Saturday morning I'm pulling my tranny, only thing left to do are the cooler lines, DC the battery, remove the starter, and pull the bolts. On that note, don't forget! After taking out the TC bolts, pry the TC back towards the tranny. I pryed here.

image-2694125610.jpg

Then wire it to the tranny to hold it in place.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 08:34 PM   #48
skizriz
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If you need any spare parts, let me know. Once I tear it out, I'll have no use for any of it (other that the yoke). You can have whatever you pay to ship as thanks for the help.
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Unread 09-13-2013, 03:40 PM   #49
lucdog
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Found the problem, the splines are stripped on one of the cone clutches.

image-1081635426.jpg

My best guess on this is on one of the few times I've used normal drive on the trail, the collar didnt come back to lock things together. Or the vacuum Actuator isn't working.

I have a spare case with me, so I think I'll pull the cone clutch install it and never put the TC in normal drive again.

Or just put the stripped clutch back in and leave it in E drive. If this is what I do, I'll put a sleeve between the fork and case, so it can't come out.

Think I'll go with the latter.

I also don't see any way to weld anything.

And you were correct in that the spiders are completely out of the equation in E drive.
Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-13-2013, 06:02 PM   #50
carnuck
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I'm going a different way. (in an IH and not a CJ) 304/nailhead TH400 (was QT as it was '73) and converting to run Dodge NP208 (RH drop)
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Unread 09-13-2013, 06:50 PM   #51
lucdog
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Here's what I think is happening. There is play in the collar as seen in these 2 pictures.

image-780990976.jpg



image-32640843.jpg

I believe the play/slack is normally taken up or absorbed by the cone clutches. With the splines stripped on the clutch that isn't happening.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-13-2013, 07:32 PM   #52
skizriz
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It's hard for me to imagine what would strip out the teeth on the clutch cone like that. The splines line up for the output shaft to go through the cone and the spider gear. The clutch cone is the only one to strip it's splines.
The only thing I can come up with is that if you were to push it hard in normal mode, and the clutch cones were sticking very bad. The spider gears would do their job and allow the front and rear speed to differentiate, but the cones not releasing strips out the splines instead of allowing that cone it to slip as it should.
If the front and rear wheel speed is different, and the cones don't release, something has got to give.

The one thing I did notice on my original case with the splines stripped out is that it was filled with ATF. The cones, and where the cones sat in the barrel, looked like they had seen some high heat. It looked like when a bearing goes bad and leaves metal welded to the race. I know those cones weren't working as they should.

I can't believe how much slop is in that locking ring. Welding up the spiders as you suggested may be a way to eliminate that. Do a type of "fozzy locker" weld on the spiders, and just eliminate the clutch cones, for full time E-drive.
Wish I wouldn't have scrapped my old center diff now. It would have made a good one for you to experiment with since the cones and their mating surfaces were shot on both ends anyhow.

Looking at that locking ring, and seeing how much of the gear actually catches, it could very well be my teeth worn on the edges and not fully engaging, allowing it to slip under load. It may not be the chain slipping after all.
The shift fork pads may be worn, and not sliding it forward enough.
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Unread 09-13-2013, 08:06 PM   #53
lucdog
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This case had ATF in it when I bought it 3 years ago. I've used 30w non detergent with limited slip additive. Every thing looks normal inside the case, nothing burnt.
I have abused it in those 3 years, welded rear spiders , front loctite, 33" LTB's, and for the last year and a half a 360.
I have no complaints with the Qtrac case! I really feel the cones keep pressure on the parts even in E drive, because of the 6 convex washers, until the slip collars slack is taken up.

We'll see how well it holds up, I'll also start carrying my spare case with me.
Enough about my stuff, back to the Dana 18 Qtrac swap.

I do have some other tips , I'll wait till your close to reassembly

My PM box is full, but I'll PM you my cell number if you have any questions I can answer when you put the tranny back together.

Ps. If your chain is still good, I would be interested.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-13-2013, 08:09 PM   #54
skizriz
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There was no doubt about what was wrong with the Crown chain though. This was literally fours hours old.




The new Morse chain when I put it in. Banjo tight. It sure is tough getting a brand new chain in. My little board worked wonders.
I won't miss this a bit. LOL


Got an email today from Bj's off road saying the Novak adapters are on order, and it will be a week or so until it gets shipped.
Now I't just a waiting game.
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Unread 09-13-2013, 08:12 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Ps. If your chain is still good, I would be interested.

Bill
If it's good, it's yours. Eddie gave it to me, I'll pass it on to somebody else that can use it.
Once I get it finished, I'll tear the case down and see what's good and bad in it. I'll get a slack measurement and we can go from there.

Steve.
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Unread 09-14-2013, 08:29 AM   #56
lucdog
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Thanks Steve! Here's a picture of the style of clamp my guy used to hold the tranny. It utilizes the 2 round indents on the side of the tranny, and a bolt the runs down on the top. It wouldn't be hard to make one, and incorporate it to a engine stand. When you start putting parts back in the tail shaft should be pointed down.

image-2025602668.jpg

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-16-2013, 06:48 PM   #57
skizriz
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Talked to Novak and BJ's today. My adapter is finished, they will get it sent out tomorrow.
Cleaned up some room in the garage to work. It will be tight, but do-able. The only other option is in the gravel driveway in front of the garage. I want to avoid that in case of rain.
Here I can roll the trans out from underneath on the jack where I have room to work on the table in front.

A couple more days of driving it and cleaning at the car wash (can never be too clean), and I'll start tearing it down later in the week. I hate the thought of not being able to drive it.

I got you number Bill. Hopefully everything goes smooth.
I'll post up pictures of the Quadratrac tear down for others. I plan on splitting the case, removing the chain and gears, and then the other half of the case.
Don't know whether I need to do it this way, or if I can just remove the entire case at once.
If anything it will make it easier to handle, and I know how to split the case oh too well.

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Unread 09-16-2013, 06:59 PM   #58
lucdog
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As long as you can get to the starter. And tranny bolts on the passenger side. Coolent lines also.

On a related note. I took the TC apart today, replaced the stripped cone clutch. I think I was correct in that the cone absorbed energy for the slip ring. Nice and tight now. No more play. I've also been studying the spare case I took apart. The cross shaft is toast, so I'm going to do a little Lincoln locking, after some more thought .

When you get to the point of removing the planetary set, post some pictures. I'll tell you what a upgrade would be.

And don't try to pick the tranny up by yourself, even with the converter out.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-16-2013, 07:22 PM   #59
skizriz
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If you need any other parts from the Q-trac, let me know. I locked the center diff after putting a good one together, and it hasn't been unlocked since. Everything should be in good shape, except whatever is slipping.
If i could get it to you easy, you can have the entire case. Whatever parts you don't want will be scrapped. I won't have any need to keep anything for spare parts. Other than the yokes that will fit the 18.

I'll probably move it out from the wall a little bit. I should be able to access just about everything from underneath.
I plan on putting a jack underneath, and dropping the belly pan first off. That will make it so much easier draining everything, removing the front driveshaft (something I despise). With the pan off, if I drop it slightly, splitting the case should be a breeze. The belly pan was always permanently attached before, and working around it was a bear.

I got a nice strong 16 year old boy that will do my heavy lifting for me.LOL
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Unread 09-16-2013, 10:52 PM   #60
lucdog
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I found it easiest to remove the low range unit, then the TC, after draining.dont forget the low range rod. Here's the steps I did, worked well.
1,) removed rear driveshaft.
1.5) drained the tranny and TC.
2.) supported the tranny at the pan, and the engine oil pan, both with floor jacks. (For safety)
3.) removed the mounting bolts for the torque arm, removed the skid plate.
4.) removed the front driveshaft. ( lots easier this way)
5.) took the jack from the engine pan, and put it under the trans mount.
6.) Removed the jack from the tranny pan, and put the tranny jack under the pan. The whole thing (engine and tranny are now supported by the tranny jack.
7.) removed the jack from the tranny mount, and put it under the engine oil pan.

So the engine is supported by the floor jack, tranny supported by the tranny jack.

That's where I'm at till tomorrow morning, the swap will happen then.

So what's left to do is disconnect the battery, remove the cooling lines and starter. Then the tranny bolts.

At any point in time the inspection covers, and torque converter bolts can be removed. Then pry the TQ towards the tranny 1/4 to 1/2" and secure it with bailing wire. I posted a picture earlier for prying. I'll post a picture tomorrow of the engine side of the converter.
A swivel socket and 2' (or more) of 3/8" extension are needed ( 3' would be best) to get to the tranny mounting bolts. I don't like to let the engine and tranny down to far, don't want to break the engine mounts, (the rubber).


image-2198737504.jpg







image-3882098393.jpg

If you find the torque converter is painted, most likely the Torque converter has been replaced, and possibly the tranny worked on or rebuilt.

image-219838422.jpg

One more thing. According to the guy who helped me, the Torque converter is the same one as the Chevy application .
I know the Chevy torque converter uses 3 bolts to hold it to the flexplate.

When I removed the 258 and installed the 360 I didn't remove the tranny, ( the beauty of a automatic) I was within a Cat wisker of cutting a hole in the floor, when trying to get the top bolts in. The one that holds the dip stick is a real pain. Don't forget the engine and tranny can be raised for better clearance. The swivel socket will work better than a universal and socket.

Also, don't forget or lose the alignment pins/ that align the engine/tranny.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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