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Unread 09-09-2013, 06:11 AM   #31
lucdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattl
Great idea on the Dana 18! I'm curious how it will handle the power of the 258? Did Jeep ever install the Dana 18 behind the Dauntless Buick 225, or was that the Dana 20? That V6 made more horsepower, but lower torque than the 258 I-6 I think.
Keep us posted on the build-up.
One of our club members runs a Dana 18 behind a T18 tranny and fuel injected 360, and 38" SS boggers. It's more about gearing in the axles. 2.73 gears put a lot more stress on the transfer case than 4.88's.

His Jeep uses a Dana 60 rear. The pumpkin is off set like the Q-trac AMC 20. This axle was shortened on the passenger side to reduce the overall width, and line up the pumpkin with the T case. A custom shortened axle shaft was made Moser.

Bill

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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-09-2013, 10:26 AM   #32
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My 3.54 Gears probably dont do much to help relieving stress on the chain. But driving over 200 highway miles a week, low Gears have always been Just a thought. I get good mileage cruising at 22-2300 rpm.

Maybe low Gears, and an overdrive unit for the 18 in the future?
Its a Nice option to have available.

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Unread 09-09-2013, 09:17 PM   #33
mattl
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I didn't realize they could handle alot of power as Lucdog noted. Sounds like a good match then. Very unique using the TH400 along with the Dana 18. I'll bet you like it.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 04:24 PM   #34
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Skizriz, I'm thanking a spare th400 to my tranny guy tomorrow. He's putting a manual valve body in, and generally checking things over. I'll be there the entire time, I hope I can remember all the stuff he tells me.
On the torque converter, I check with him for his Recommendation. To me it's cheap insurance to change it. So I'll have a Specific answer for you!

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:24 PM   #35
skizriz
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Thanks. I'd appreciate anything you can tell me. I'm hoping to just swap out the tailshaft, with a little else as possible. If I need certain new seals and gaskets, that's one thing, but as far as I know everything is kosher, and I don't want to throw money into it that's not needed.
The problem is is that I have no idea what is needed...

I've been watching a lot of videos that show burnt bands and such, so I will know a little of what to look for. Until then, I'm going on the assumption that everything will be ok. (I know,I know ).

Steve
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Unread 09-11-2013, 07:22 PM   #36
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Sorry I don't have a lot of pictures, my hands has tranny fluid on them during the install of the manual valve body.

To me the most important thing I learned today was the correct Orientation of parts.
For instance, after the removal of the pump there are a number of baskets that hold the friction disc in place, some are retained by snap rings. One of the first rings to go in is shortly after the main shaft is reinstalled. One side of this ring has a bevel. Remember the way it goes in.



image-1909148096.jpg

This is just after removing the pan. At this point the kick down wire can be removed. And then the valve body. I would remember what bolt goes where, they are different lengths. The small box can also be removed, don't remember if thats necessary.

On to the pump, after removing the bolts my guy did some tapping with a brass mallet and wiggled the shaft to remove the pump. A "O" ring is used to seal the pump to the housing.

One thing I would do at this point is to use a long table, so the parts can be laid out as you remove them. Your going to see snap rings, clutch packs. Sun gears, a couple of thrust washers, among other things.


Attachment 668833



Attachment 668857




image-3144091052.jpg

Valve body removed along with one gasket, I believe you can see the bottom gasket. At least in one of the 2 pics. In the center of the picture 1/3 from the bottom you will see either a "V" or "VB" , or a "C" cut out of the gasket, C = case side, VB is valve body side, there is a difference in the gasket. Once both gaskets and the metal plate are removed yo will see the check balls. You will also want the tranny upside down before starting
The dome shaped cover can also be removed at this point, along with whats under it. IIRC this has to do with force/pressure on the reverse band.

Sorry I don't remember if the modulator valve needs removed.



image-44273674.jpg

Most of the internals removed, the next pic includes the main shaft,


image-2385422100.jpg
That's it for the pictures.

There are some tips I can offer, but it's hard to describe them.

If you have questions ask! I'll try to help.

Most if not all of the work was done with the tranny upside down as seen in the first pictures. Reinstalling everything under the pump was done with the tail of the tranny pointed straight down.
Google tranny clamp.

It took us 4 hours to dissemble and reassemble the tranny, and install the valve body.

On the torque converter. My guy said its next to impossible to clean it out. Meaning clean completely. He said do not use a solvent, only something like brake clean that dries.

He always changes the TC on a rebuild. Only if your Confident there's nothing wrong with what you have, should you use it. That being said, for between $75 and $150 it cheap insurance. IMHO. I would rather spend the money now, than have to pull the tranny again .

O, when you remove the filter, look at the top side to see how dirty it is.

Take your time, study how and what the part does when you remove it. I would go so far as to put the part in and out a couple times. And move to the next part.
Take lots of pictures, and make notes.

Worst case, if the pump doesn't seat when reinstalling it, something isn't correct.

I all honestly I would be a little Intimidated doing this myself the first time, this was a awesome learning. Experiance for me, I would now have the Confidence to attempt a rebuild,

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-11-2013, 07:36 PM   #37
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More.

.
This is the vent hole, there will probably be a small plastic tube. I'm going to use something like this to fix mine. And then run it up to the firewall . Also add some JB weld to the outside.

image-4106775074.jpg



image-1088686341.jpg

Edit, 3/16 brake line was too small, we were going to flare one end and push it thru from the inside to the outside. The pump flange would hold it in place.

Just a side note, my tranny did have a shift kit installed, it wasn't store bought. Who ever rebuilt it knew what they were doing. We also found $400 in upgrades to the sun/Planetary gear sets. It also had top of the line clutch disc in it .

So search YouTube or google th400 home made shift kit. It wouldn't be hard to do.
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-11-2013, 11:11 PM   #38
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Awesome Bill! Lots of good information there.
Im Definitly a little nervous about doing it, but hopefully all goes well. Some of the tips you have ring a bell with a few of the vídeos i have been watching, so at least Im retaining some of the information.
I plan on that being an all day Project in itself. I want plenty of time for thinking along the way.

Hopefully the adapters are finished. I plan on getting it ordered Friday.

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Unread 09-12-2013, 08:43 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
More.

.
This is the vent hole, there will probably be a small plastic tube. I'm going to use something like this to fix mine. And then run it up to the firewall . Also add some JB weld to the outside.

Attachment 669185



Attachment 669217
[/quote]

While the transmission is apart you can drill and tap that hole for a pipe thread and install a leakproof line wherever you want. But you can only drill and tap while apart because cleaning the drill chips is impossible while assembled.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 02:49 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown7
While the transmission is apart you can drill and tap that hole for a pipe thread and install a leakproof line wherever you want. But you can only drill and tap while apart because cleaning the drill chips is impossible while assembled.[/QUOTE]

It's not really a big deal to pull the pump, secure the Adjoining area and then drill and tap.

Skiriz, I have a question for you. What would you think of welding the spiders in the TC? I run mine like you do,"E" drive all the time, with locking hubs. The good news is my chain is still good. God only knows how many miles on it.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 03:52 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post

Skiriz, I have a question for you. What would you think of welding the spiders in the TC? I run mine like you do,"E" drive all the time, with locking hubs. The good news is my chain is still good. God only knows how many miles on it.

Bill
I had seen welding the diff up mentioned somewhere before. I think it may have been in an ad from somebody selling replacement diffs that were permanently locked. I'm not sure what benefit you would get out of it, other than if your shift collar or it's few splines were tore up.Once that shift collar slides into place, the spiders SHOULD be taken out of the equation.
You may loose a little of the "slop" that seems to come from running in E-drive with the hubs unlocked.

The shift collar slipping may even be what is banging away in mine for all I know. It seems like the classic chain jumping, but won't know for sure until it gets opened up.
I never thought to take it out of E-drive and see what happens.
It could also be in the low range unit, or who knows what else.


I'm still debating the new torque converter. The Jeep fund is getting low, and I still have a ways to go yet. I may just roll the dice and re-use mine if the trans is as easy to pull out as I think it's going to be.
On the other hand, I can get a Pro-king re-mfg from Advance Auto for $85 after my discount. It's a 1350 stall speed.What's a good stall speed for an off road Jeep?

I got the adapter ordered today. Hopefully they are done making them. I went through BJ's Offroad. They have them for $595 after the discount code, compared to Novak's $686.
Got some new knobs, a boot, and a HD poly mount for the T-case today.

Now I just need to source up some driveshafts. I'll scrounge up some nice long ones and cut them down to size.
The rear yoke (or it's front is you wanted a Double Cardan rear driveshaft) from my Q-trac should fit right on to the dana 18 output, so I'll be good to go there. No need to worry about a DC rear driveshaft due to the low output of the 18. (one of the many reasons I chose it)

I just need to figure out what gaskets and seals I'll need to replace on the trans after it gets opened up. There aren't ant leaks now, but I don't know what I can reuse and what I can't.

Getting all of my ducks in a row. Hopefully it will be time to tear it apart soon.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 03:58 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Take your time, study how and what the part does when you remove it. I would go so far as to put the part in and out a couple times. And move to the next part.
Take lots of pictures, and make notes.



Bill
Very good idea. I like the practice it a couple of times before moving on to the next part.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 05:14 PM   #43
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The seal for the TC input, Modulator valve seal, dip stick O ring, and the pump to housing O ring. I only replaced the TC input, and dipstick O ring, modulator isn't needed on what I did.
You will need to remove the valve body. There is one bolt in it that needs removed. It holds one of the pieces in the parts on the bench picture. It takes a 12 point 12mm socket. It may be hard to see with fluid in all the little channels . This picture is the approx location, or at least in a 1.250" diameter.


image-586197000.jpg

I have 3 Quadratrac units. I cracking the case on the one I took out of the Jeep today. There is a lot of slop between the 2 knuckles, the other 2 don't have this slop. Maybe it is the slide collar, it's been a while since I had one apart. But I'm thinking its the spiders. I thought when in E drive the power still has to go thru the spider gears. Mainly because they are inline with both outputs.

I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

On the vent thing. I would love to drill and tap mine. The question is, is there a smaller pipe tap (NPT) than 1/8", and are they Readily available?

Name:  image-586197000.jpg
Views: 126
Size:  410.7 KB



image-359277345.jpg

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 05:45 PM   #44
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Here's how I did the vent. I used a grease zerk with 1/4" threads . I drilled out the spring and used a punch to take the ball out. I then drilled the center with a 1/8" drill bit.

image-419381553.jpg



image-2764374729.jpg

The threads are self tapping, the zerk screwed into the vent . I used a socket with a screw for a stop, and applied inward pressure. I also used blue loctite on the threads. A clamp and some fuel line finished it.

image-2465526678.jpg



image-672597584.jpg

B
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 05:47 PM   #45
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As far as I can figure on how the locking ring works is thinking of it this way.

Picture a standard open diff rear end. Weld one side of the axle to the carrier. That axle will now be locked to the ring gear through the carrier. It will be permanently attached to that side's spider gear (side gear) through the splines, which in turn will lock across to the one on the opposite side. Now both axles will be locked together.

The rear output shaft on the q-trac has splines for the lockup ring ( shift collar). When it slides forward, it engages the splines on the rear of the center diff also, locking the output shaft to the outside of the center diff.
You now just did the same as welding the axle in the above example.
When unlocked, it's only attached through the splines on the spider gears, and not the outer case of the diff,just like an oped rear end.
So it would actually go through the spider gears as you suggested. That could very well be a place to get some slop. The locking rings are also know bad spots, they are maybe 6 splines, 10 splines at most if I remember correctly.


Only the friction of the brake cones, keeps it from becoming a complete open diff when in normal drive mode.
Strip the splines out of the inside of the brake cones, and you will have open diffs front to rear unless locked up. That's what happened with my first case.
It actually drove better on the street like that. But would do front wheel only burnouts while pulling out in gravel.


As far as I can tell, that's the basic jist of how it works. That's just from what I think I figured out while working on it a few times. My theory could be severly flawed though. LOL I had all of the gutted out parts from my old one I kind of assembled on the bench to play around with, and figure out what makes them work.
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