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Unread 04-07-2009, 01:53 PM   #1
Hybrid AWD
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
Project "Build Take 2"

A little explaination of the name of this project before I start. Back in my high school days I got my first vehicle being a 1976 CJ-7. I had a lot of plans for the Jeep and it all started with an badly needed overhaul. The CJ-7 came with a 258, T-150 and Dana 20. The axles that came with it were the Dana 30/20 combo. I rebuilt the motor added a Comp Cam, Painless wiring harness, SS brake lines, bedlined tub, undercoated tub, Headman Header etc. Well the project became abandoned after high school until now.

So the build begins....again. Key the "take 2" part of my title. Here are the plans, ideas, brainstorms....


Engine:Freebie
  • TBI 305 - 63,000 miles on the motor

Transmission:Freebie
  • 700R4
Transfer Case:
  • NP241
Front Axle: Freebie
  • Dana 60
Rear Axle:
  • 14 Bolt

Misc Parts:
  • Speed Scene Wiring Harness - Check
  • BTF Rear Stretch Kit - Still Considering
  • 36x13.50x18 Mickey Thompson Baja Claws - Check
  • 18x10 MB Motoring Blitz Wheels - Check
  • BTF Comp Corners - Still Considering
  • M.O.R.E. JM200 Motor Mounts - Check

The tear down is going to start this weekend to get the chassis ready for the rear stretch kit and the POR 15 products.

After weeks of reading about frame coatings, I decided to go with POR-15 as my choice of product. I ended up buying a few different products from POR.
  • POR-15 Black Rust Preventative Paint
  • POR-15 ChassisCoat
  • POR-15 Marine Clean
  • POR Strip
  • POR-15 Metal Ready
I've heard some mixed reviews on the POR-15 stuff but more good than bad so I am going with POR.

I still have a bunch of questions as far as the route I am going to take and I am still undecided on a few different options I have.
  • Keep leaves on all 4 corners or go with coilovers in the front with a link setup
  • Brake System - Hydroboost, YJ Swap, PSC Fully Hydraulic...
  • Gearing for the axles
  • Stick with the full width route or just find some Wagoneer 44's

I hope you guys enjoy the pictures that are to come in the very near future and I hope to get some advice and tips from those who have already traveled down this road. Pictures coming soon.

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Unread 04-07-2009, 04:52 PM   #2
thantos858
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1974 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Santa Maria
Posts: 1,472
Sounds like a nice build. Personally if you got the dana 60 for free id stick with that over a 44. So what stopped the project the first time?
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Unread 04-07-2009, 07:24 PM   #3
JeepnBlake
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2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 3,061
I'll be following this very closely cause i have a very similar axle swap planned (d44, 14bff)
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-Blake-

Build Thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/j...thread-985907/
Dad's Build Thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/d...build-1474170/
OEM Fog Light Connectors, Conversions, and Extension Info:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f20/o...ngler-1008928/
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Unread 04-07-2009, 08:12 PM   #4
Hybrid AWD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thantos858 View Post
Sounds like a nice build. Personally if you got the dana 60 for free id stick with that over a 44. So what stopped the project the first time?
I honestly don't know. It was a nice Jeep and I guess I just lost interest and got more into cars.

I'm not building a show and shine Jeep, but I do want it to look nice. Locally there isnt much option for crawling around on the rocks but there is plenty of mud if you know where to look. The Jeep will be something I can start up whenever and drive down the road. That is the main reason I am sticking with TBI vs. throwing a carb on it.

Any input and ideas are welcome as it does nothing but help. I should have the Jeep stripped down hopefully no later than Sunday, and that will include some pictures as well and the step by step on what I did to do the POR-15 stuff. Stay Tuned!
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Unread 04-10-2009, 10:53 AM   #5
Hybrid AWD
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I'd like to get some opinions on steering from you guys.

So I have all of the intentions on going full width on my Jeep, but I am trying to determine whether or not I want to do it now (which would slow the build) or do it down the road over the winter. Currently the CJ7 has the Dana 30 front axle and Model 20 rear axle combo.

So when it comes to steering, what would you guys recommend? I have been looking into the ARG pump and box which should be adequate to run 36's or 37's on the full width setup correct? I just don't want to spend money on one setup and end up switching it within a year because it's not sufficient.
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Unread 04-27-2009, 05:08 AM   #6
Hybrid AWD
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A little update.

Since the weekend was perfect here in VA I figured I would take advantage of it by stripping the frame and coating it with the POR-15.

























Here you can see where the MORE Bombproof motor mount for the passenger side doesn't fit. They clarify that it won't in the instructions and that the bump stop bracket needs to be modified to get it in the right location.

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Unread 04-27-2009, 08:16 AM   #7
jeepskate
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1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,700
I'd go on and go full width now...build it once and be 'done' with it. Save the winter for small tweaks & projects. Since you're not playing in the rocks, sticking with the leaves all the way around is far simpler & less expensive...don't really need to mess with the wheelbase stretch either. K.I.S.S. For steerng, look at PSC...most of the knowledgable & hardcore folks have abandoned AGR in favor of PSC (the guy who owns PSC used to own AGR)...you might consider going with a ram-assist setup. May as well go hydraboost on the brakes.
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'86 CJ-7 Laredo: 4.2,T-999,D300,D30/D44,'94 YJ tub, full cage, Shrockworks rockers, OYR corners, AC,cruise,restored seats,3 tops,2.5" Superlift,F-T shackle reversal, RS9000x's,35" Dunlop Mud Rovers.
'83 Scrambler: time & money pit under construction with parts from CJ's,YJ's,TJ's,FSJ's,GM,Ford,IH,Honda,Toyota and a whole lotta aftermarket & custom stuff.
http://www.jeepskate.net
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Unread 04-27-2009, 08:36 AM   #8
Hybrid AWD
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I'd love to try the Jeep out on the rocks, but that is pretty much last on the list of events I want to do. There just isnt enough "locally" to make it worthwhile to set the Jeep up for it. So I am 100% sure of leafs on all four corners.

The only reason I was considering the rear stretch was because of the length of the drivetrain. I didn't want to get any crazy driveshaft angle with the transmission and t-case. I figured it would be beneficial to spend the money and have a better overall angle and have the benefit of the longer wheel base.

I'll look more into PSC, I contacted AGR and they recommended a ram-assist setup as well. So it seems to be the smart way to go overall. It may be a little bit more pricey, but it's better to spend a little extra now than replace later imo. "K.I.S.S. for steering" what is K.I.S.S.? I assume it's just hydraulic assist?

Also, for the brakes and hydraboost, how touchy is hydraboost brakes on the street? I just don't want anything that is very touchy that way it doesnt feel as though I am slamming on the brakes all the time
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Unread 04-27-2009, 08:40 AM   #9
kickingprop
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1985 CJ7 
 
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Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,042
K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple, Stupid

Words I wish I could learn to live by...
__________________
1985 CJ7 Project
Phase One : 5.3L Vortec/4L60E, Moser axles for AMC20, Twin Stick'd Dana300 - Completed
Phase Two: Bedliner, Rollcage, Seats, BESRK Rear Bumper w/ tire swing, Soft Top, and a few other goodies - Mostly Complete
Phase Three: Waggy 44 front, Scout D44 Rear, 4.56's, ARB's (F/R) SOA with YJ Springs, 35x12.50x15 BFG MT - Not Even Close to beginning

Also a mostly rust-free 1970 Scout 800A That I'll get to start working on someday...

Quote:
Chrome won't get you home...BUT Rattle Can Black may just get you back"
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Unread 04-27-2009, 08:46 AM   #10
Hybrid AWD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickingprop View Post
K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple, Stupid

Words I wish I could learn to live by...
Wow I totally overlooked that
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Unread 04-27-2009, 11:07 AM   #11
jeepskate
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1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,700
Yup...you quoted it as "K.I.S.S. for steering" when it was "K.I.S.S." followed by a new sentence "For steering..."
In other words, don't get caught up in all the fanciness of coil/link setups & wheelbases stretches when you don't really need it for what you're doing. I'd probably rethink that NP241 choice...chain drive, thin aluminum housing, and I'm pretty sure those use a slip-yoke like their smaller NP231 bretheren.
__________________
'86 CJ-7 Laredo: 4.2,T-999,D300,D30/D44,'94 YJ tub, full cage, Shrockworks rockers, OYR corners, AC,cruise,restored seats,3 tops,2.5" Superlift,F-T shackle reversal, RS9000x's,35" Dunlop Mud Rovers.
'83 Scrambler: time & money pit under construction with parts from CJ's,YJ's,TJ's,FSJ's,GM,Ford,IH,Honda,Toyota and a whole lotta aftermarket & custom stuff.
http://www.jeepskate.net
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Unread 04-27-2009, 11:26 AM   #12
Hybrid AWD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepskate View Post
Yup...you quoted it as "K.I.S.S. for steering" when it was "K.I.S.S." followed by a new sentence "For steering..."
In other words, don't get caught up in all the fanciness of coil/link setups & wheelbases stretches when you don't really need it for what you're doing. I'd probably rethink that NP241 choice...chain drive, thin aluminum housing, and I'm pretty sure those use a slip-yoke like their smaller NP231 bretheren.
Yeah you're right about how I read it. Honestly, I'm completely content with keeping the Dana 30 and Model 20 for the time being. It's not like it's a must do thing with the full width setup, but I know I'd have to spend some money getting these axles back in good working order. Also, if I remember correctly the front and rear gearing doesn't match... why I have no idea (another dumb move by the previous owner).

There is a FF 14bolt and Dana 60 locally and if they want chump change, that will be the route I take. I found a decent thread on Pirate about making your own Full Width setup and I have the resources, so I may consider that as well.

Getting the chassis back to rolling form is the next step, then the drivetrain followed by the steering.
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Unread 04-27-2009, 11:52 AM   #13
kickingprop
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1985 CJ7 
 
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Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepskate View Post
Yup...you quoted it as "K.I.S.S. for steering" when it was "K.I.S.S." followed by a new sentence "For steering..."
In other words, don't get caught up in all the fanciness of coil/link setups & wheelbases stretches when you don't really need it for what you're doing. I'd probably rethink that NP241 choice...chain drive, thin aluminum housing, and I'm pretty sure those use a slip-yoke like their smaller NP231 bretheren.
I think getting an adapter and running a Dana300 would be a better option anyway because it would shorten your driveline giving you a less severe driveshaft angle... Even with the 700R4 adapter on the D300 it should be shorter than the 241 I would imagine. or right at the same length. Plus you can do all sorts of cool things with the D300! Just my $0.02...
__________________
1985 CJ7 Project
Phase One : 5.3L Vortec/4L60E, Moser axles for AMC20, Twin Stick'd Dana300 - Completed
Phase Two: Bedliner, Rollcage, Seats, BESRK Rear Bumper w/ tire swing, Soft Top, and a few other goodies - Mostly Complete
Phase Three: Waggy 44 front, Scout D44 Rear, 4.56's, ARB's (F/R) SOA with YJ Springs, 35x12.50x15 BFG MT - Not Even Close to beginning

Also a mostly rust-free 1970 Scout 800A That I'll get to start working on someday...

Quote:
Chrome won't get you home...BUT Rattle Can Black may just get you back"
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Unread 04-27-2009, 01:24 PM   #14
Hybrid AWD
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Posts: 21
The reason for "ruling" out the Dana 300 is the fact that to get it to work with the 700R4 you have to get an adapater from either Novak ($504), AA ($538) or JB Conversion ($575). To mate the NP241 to the 700R4 all I need is the OEM bracket/adapter which can be had for dirt cheap.

To compare the NP241 vs. Dana 300 this is what I have found:
NP241
  • SYE is available and will shorten drivetrain by 5-6" overall
  • Low range with a ratio of 2.72:1
  • The Super SYE will shorten the drivetrain by 9" overall
  • Can be clocked
  • Can setup as a doubled for 7.1:1 if for some reason wanted to waste money

Dana 300
  • SYE is available
  • Low range with a ratio of 2.62:1
  • 85lbs
  • 16" Wide
  • Can be clocked

I had the weight and dimensions of both written down somewhere but I can't seem to find that or the website which gave me all of the information.

I thought about using the Dana 20 I have, but that adapter is over $600. I have been back and forth on what driveline I want to go with, but to me it just seems easier to use my 700R4 and buy a NP241.
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Unread 04-27-2009, 01:34 PM   #15
kickingprop
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1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,042
What about the 203/205 doubler.....get that super low range... I just have this phobia/dislike of chain driven TCases... And I'm pretty sure NP205's are pretty easy to come by and you can probably find one that actually came behind a 700R4 to begin with if not already mated to a 700R... The 203 doubler just sounds awesome to me...
__________________
1985 CJ7 Project
Phase One : 5.3L Vortec/4L60E, Moser axles for AMC20, Twin Stick'd Dana300 - Completed
Phase Two: Bedliner, Rollcage, Seats, BESRK Rear Bumper w/ tire swing, Soft Top, and a few other goodies - Mostly Complete
Phase Three: Waggy 44 front, Scout D44 Rear, 4.56's, ARB's (F/R) SOA with YJ Springs, 35x12.50x15 BFG MT - Not Even Close to beginning

Also a mostly rust-free 1970 Scout 800A That I'll get to start working on someday...

Quote:
Chrome won't get you home...BUT Rattle Can Black may just get you back"
kickingprop is offline   Reply With Quote
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