Problem with my air control mechanism - JeepForum.com

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post #1 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
Daladim
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Problem with my air control mechanism

While I was cleaning up my air ducts, I noticed a problem with the control for the air/heat vents. The specific mechanism is in the pic below:



In the image, the 'L' shaped bracket with the cable connected controls the heat flapper. The one with the spring controls the three vent flappers. When I pull the knob it comes out to what seems like its limit, but only moves the bracket on the left.

Now, when I pull out the vent knob, it comes to a solid stop, and seems to go no further. But this only controls the flapper for the heat. The flappers in the cowl and on the inside vent, down on the passenger side don't do anything. I can however pull the knob out even further, with some force, and it opens the other three flappers. But, this causes the rod(?) to completely come out of it's housing. It's as if the cable is too long for what it's supposed to do.

I met with another CJ7 owner this afternoon to take a look at his controls, to see where I'm having my problems, but his does the exact same thing, except he can't get his vent flappers to open at all.

What could be causing this problem, and how do I go about fixing it?

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post #2 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 11:25 PM
NewdRiver_
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I just cleaned mine up with a wire brush. I don't think I fully understand your question, but here's some pictures. As you are pulling on the AIR knob:

1st positition (everything closed):


2nd position (door lets air in from the cowl vent):


3rd position (driver's dash vent opens):
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post #3 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
Daladim
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Yeah, you might not have understood me. And you definitely confused me!

Your first position is in the same place as the one I posted. Everything off. Now, I just went out and looked at it, and the second position does open one of the flaps on the cowl. However, this is as far as my knob willingly goes.

Allow me to explain a little better. You know how your knob is connected to a metal rod, which is in turn connected to a cable. That cable goes to this little mechanism. The cable appears to be missing in your pictures. Anyway, when I pull the knob all that way out, it only moves to the second position.

In order for my vents to open, or for me to achieve the third position, I need to pull the knob out so far that that rod comes out of the dash, or the housing for the knob/rod assembly. I can get the vent to work, but my knob comes out so far that the cable is visible, and it is very hard to push it back in, because the rod has a flat spot that keeps it from twisting. When I pull it this far out, it twists and gets kind of stuck.

I don't think this is the way the vents were designed, and my question is, how is it supposed to work, and how do I fix mine so it works properly?
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post #4 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 12:16 AM
NewdRiver_
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Well, then I can't answer your question. I've never had my dash installed yet, don't know if I'll run into the same situation. Plus I'm using the Omix-Ada cheapy replacment cables.
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post #5 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 12:21 AM
only in a jeep cj
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Right, I understand. First, just to clear a few things up. The push/pull knob in question only operates the air gates or fresh air ducts. The heater flapper is a triangular shaped gate that pivots inside the lower box at the heater core to regulate the air flow through or over the core. It is controled by another slide knob.
Now, you are correct, the second position of the air intake knob should not come out so far that the cable is exposed. The first position only opens the cowl gate on the right of the air intake grill in front of the WS. This funnels air into the system and it can free flow or by forced via the fan speed either over or through the heater core (cool or hot air) and either out the center vents at the transmission tunnel hump OR out the WS defrost vents. The second position of the knob should open two more gates. One on the left side of the air intake grill (cowl section) by way of the long rod, and the other is at the feet of the passenger (or right) side at the blower motor, by way of a cable. This is large amounts of fresh air for the passenger and driver sides .This cable has an adjuster drum on it so in the closed position, the two gates can be closed with the same tension. If this adjustment is way off, it could allow too much free cable and the slack is pulled out with the knob.
These systems can work real nice IF they are lubed and adjusted correctly. Years of non use or rusted doors can make them break or not work as should. Even when working good, the second position is a little stiff.

Ed
1975 CJ-6 1983 CJ-8
1986 CJ-7 Laredo 1986 TJ-7 Trail Jeep
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
Daladim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by only in a jeep cj View Post
Right, I understand. First, just to clear a few things up. The push/pull knob in question only operates the air gates or fresh air ducts. The heater flapper is a triangular shaped gate that pivots inside the lower box at the heater core to regulate the air flow through or over the core. It is controled by another slide knob.
Now, you are correct, the second position of the air intake knob should not come out so far that the cable is exposed. The first position only opens the cowl gate on the right of the air intake grill in front of the WS. This funnels air into the system and it can free flow or by forced via the fan speed either over or through the heater core (cool or hot air) and either out the center vents at the transmission tunnel hump OR out the WS defrost vents. The second position of the knob should open two more gates. One on the left side of the air intake grill (cowl section) by way of the long rod, and the other is at the feet of the passenger (or right) side at the blower motor, by way of a cable. This is large amounts of fresh air for the passenger and driver sides .This cable has an adjuster drum on it so in the closed position, the two gates can be closed with the same tension. If this adjustment is way off, it could allow too much free cable and the slack is pulled out with the knob.
These systems can work real nice IF they are lubed and adjusted correctly. Years of non use or rusted doors can make them break or not work as should. Even when working good, the second position is a little stiff.
Hey, thanks for the in depth reply. Most of what you said is what I understand of the system, however, in my original post, I did make a minor mistake in sayign the heat setting controls the heat flap. I know better, I was just forgetting is all.

But you mention an adjuster drum. I don't think I remember ever seeing one of those. That sounds like it could fix my problem, because I took the whole system apart and lubed it up real good, and cleaned it all out so it's free of debris.

Could you direct me to the area I would find this adjuster drum at, and is it easily accessible? Or will I have to pull the duct work out again to reach it?
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post #7 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 12:41 AM
only in a jeep cj
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OK, confirm that both of the second doors open in the second position. That would be the one at the passenger feet with the slanted shutter looking grill and the one behind the steering wheel ...so looking in at the cowl grill, both sides will be open.
the drum is located a few inches up from the passenger vent cable base between the side of the tub (where "Jeep" is stamped and the heater housing....yes, its a tight fit, but its in there.
Also, when you re in stalled all the slide levers and such, did you place the spacers and washers back and use the push on washers...not to tight to bind or too loose?

Ed
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post #8 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 09:10 AM
walkerhoundvm
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xx
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post #9 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 03:55 PM
scooby533
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Hey if you look at newdrecon's pictures, you'll see a rod on the left bracket. It moves both to the right (assuming your looking at the picture, to the right of the picture). That position is where your having a problem. I need to look at my set up on the CJ, but I think your cable might be in the wrong place! Nahh nevermind. I'm just speaking out of my _ _ _. Sorry disregard.
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
Daladim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by only in a jeep cj View Post
OK, confirm that both of the second doors open in the second position. That would be the one at the passenger feet with the slanted shutter looking grill and the one behind the steering wheel ...so looking in at the cowl grill, both sides will be open.
the drum is located a few inches up from the passenger vent cable base between the side of the tub (where "Jeep" is stamped and the heater housing....yes, its a tight fit, but its in there.
Also, when you re in stalled all the slide levers and such, did you place the spacers and washers back and use the push on washers...not to tight to bind or too loose?
OK, I took a look at it today, and now that I see the drum, I do recall seeing it before. I just had no idea what it was, so I didn't mess with it.

Good news, I adjusted it and now it doesn't pull all the way out. Bad news is, now the flap down on the passenger side won't fully close. Actually, the flap on the passenger side is about half way open now. I think I can fix this by taking it all apart again and moving the flap on the rod, and doing something to hold it there. Not sure, but I would suppose that this would also mean that it won't fully open after messing with the flap itself.
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post #11 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 07:13 PM
walkerhoundvm
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Have you got a spring on your passenger flapper still? Mine has a small spring on the lever arm that snaps it shut.
-N
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post #12 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 07:13 PM
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What I would do, is dissconnect the cable at the main junction. Just slide the loop off the end for now. With your fingers, slide the levers (where the cable end attached) as if the cable was there and confirm smooth movement throughout the gates and system. Adjust the drum so both gates close snuggly and are even. Then, with everthing closed, push in the knob all the way and compare the end (the loop) with the attachment pin.....is it right on, too long, too short?, Then fully open it all (second position) by hand again, and pull out the cable, but stop before the cable shows.....now where is the loop in relation to the attachment point. I would guess that both times, the loop is on the right side or too long.
I'm not telling you to do this in case you break your chit, but "I" would heat the end loop and gentlly add one more wrap via a screwdriver shaft or something the same size as the other loop.Add another wrap. That would shorten the cable and SHOULD solve the problem. BUT it it breaks, your looking at a new cable (which you may need anyway).

Ed
1975 CJ-6 1983 CJ-8
1986 CJ-7 Laredo 1986 TJ-7 Trail Jeep
2003 Inca Gold TJ Rubicon

Last edited by only in a jeep cj; 07-15-2010 at 07:24 PM.
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post #13 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
Daladim
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Thanks for the advice. So you think the cable might be stretched then? That's a bit more in depth than I care to get with it at the end of a long hot work day, so I'll do that this weekend.
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-16-2010, 12:26 AM
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It is possible a PO put the wrong cable in there.. IIRC there are different lengths for each one..

Rick

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post #15 of 21 Old 07-16-2010, 01:52 PM
NewdRiver_
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The one that controls this mechanism should be the longest. I'm interested in this "adjustment drum," I don't think I've seen it and all the ducting is sitting on my garage floor.

Also, when you're at the second position, the flapper on the passenger side should also open like only in a jeep cj said. Maybe there is some binding with that cable?
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air , air vent , blower , fresh air , heater , heater control , heater core , vent

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