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Unread 07-17-2008, 06:06 AM   #1
sgtbookie
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Prep for TeamRush 258 - Advance Curve Kit

Hello all. Brown Santa has delivered 2 of the 3 boxes of parts for my TeamRush upgrade this weekend. Part of my shopping list included the Mr Gasket #925D Advance Curve Kit (springs).

Do I simply swap out the existing springs? Can anyone step me through what needs to be done to install these springs and are there any other adjustments I need to make once they are in place?

Thanks

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Unread 07-17-2008, 06:58 AM   #2
bleoh
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There are lots of articles out on the net. Here is one I found using google.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ng/index.shtml
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Unread 07-17-2008, 07:23 AM   #3
sgtbookie
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Thanks Bleoh. Yea, been google'ing all morning, I don't ever do much on the Jeep without researching it to death. Was looking for more of a newbies step by step for someone who hasn't ever disassembled a distro before. Did find an old JeepHammer article posted on a site that included this info. If I decide to swap them out this weekend maybe I'll take some pics to go along with the info below for future newbies.

Quote:
Distributor
The stock Motorcraft distributor is just fine for any stock application. It is also just fine for any engine that operates below 5,000 RPM. Expensive billet distributors are not needed for stock or slightly modified, applications

The centrifugal advance springs can be accessed by,
Taking the distributor out of the engine,
Taking the vacuum advance off, (don't loose the little 'C' clip!)
Taking the two screws out of the floor plate,
And lifting the entire shaft and advance assemblies until the weights and springs are visible.
DO NOT hammer on the shaft! Stand it up in parts cleaning solvent until you can pull the shaft out by hand. It may take a day or two of soaking and pulling, so be prepared.
You must grease all friction surfaces before reassembly. (top and bottom bearings, and the thrust washers above the drive gear)

You DO NOT have to use the same type of spring on both sides. It is the total spring pressure that determines the centrifugal advance. (heavy/ heavy, heavy/ medium, medium/ medium, medium/ light, ect...)

An even number of teeth on the distributor gear means no front or back, so the distributor gear can go back on either way. If you have an odd number of teeth on the drive gear, make sure you mark the gear to align with the rotor nose. (I do them all this way, no matter what it comes off of)

GO EASY ON THE DRIVE GEAR! The drive gear is made of cast iron, and is pretty fragile. Don't clamp it in a vise too tight, and don't hammer on the gear when you take the roll pin out. I always use a vice to press the new roll pin in on reassembly.
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Unread 07-17-2008, 08:14 PM   #4
JeepHammer
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Remember, you have about four or five tuning options,

1. Initial Advance. What you set with the timing light with the engine idling by twisting the distirbutor in the engine.

2. Vacuum advance RATE adjustment.
Jeep/Motorcraft used an adjustable vacuum advance for Rate, or how much vacuum it takes to pull in the vacuum advance.



All it takes is a 1/8" Allen wrench and a little patients.

3. Springs. Springs are the adjustment for the RATE of the centrifugal advance.
The TOTAL spring pressure determines how soon in the RPM range the centrifugal advance comes in.
YOU CAN MIX AND MATCH SPRINGS SINCE IT'S THE TOTAL SPRING PRESSURE THAT COUNTS...




You can play 'Mix-N-Match' to your hearts content until you get your ignition tuned to work 'Just Right' where you want it!

4. Advance Head Slot.
Jeep/Motorcraft was kind enough to install at least two settings for TOTAL centrifugal advance in this particular kind of distributor!
Most of us will find we are in the 'Small' or 'Shallow' setting since these were smog engines and they were detuned to keep insurance companies from going ballistic.



Pulling the oiling felt, the head clip, and flipping the head will give you more centrifugal advance...
BUT,
You MUST pull the distirbutor and reorient the rotor to #1 cylinder if you do!
Pulling the distirbutor makes this the most difficult tuning there is on the Jeep/Motorcraft distributor...

5. This is simple, but takes tools...
The vacuum advance has a RATE adjustment built in, but it DOES NOT have a TOTAL TRAVEL adjustment built in...
If you want more vacuum advance,
(usually not nessary, and I hardly ever mess with it)
You can make the limiting stop in the vacuum advance arm longer, or file down the stop on the body of the vacuum advance all together...

This only takes a few seconds with a 'Dremel' tool, and only a few minutes with a hand file if you are so inclined to make this modification.
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Unread 07-17-2008, 08:15 PM   #5
JeepHammer
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It's pretty simple, flip the distirbutor cap,
Pull the rotor,

Look for a slot in the ADVANCE HEAD after you take the rotor off.
That slot has a very small roll pin in it aligning the RELUCTOR on the advance head shaft, and you need to mark the location of that roll pin on the RELUCTOR.

This shows marking the RELUCTOR slot (since there is more than one slot inside most reluctors) on a V-8, but the principal is the same for I-6 or V-8.



This shows the ADVANCE HEAD on an I-6 Distributor with the roll pin alignment slot plainly visible (reluctor removed).



Pull up on the 'Reluctor', that's the 'Wagon Wheel' or 'Star Shaped' thing you marked.
If you can't pull it by hand, you can use a couple of screwdrivers,
BUT PRY ON THE BASE CIRCLE! DO NOT PRY ON THE 'ARMS' OF THE RELUCTOR!
ANY bends make it useless!



Now, you are going to remove a couple of screws and the 'E' clip off the vacuum advance arm and lift off the vacuum advance plate with the magnetic trigger attached.



Once this is off, you will have access to the springs/weights in the bottom of the distributor...



Here is a tid bit of information the HEI guys don't want you to know since GM HEI's and clones can't do this...

If you take a close look at the top slot marked '13R' you will notice there is a 'Stop' or 'Limiter' in that slot...
If you notice the bottom slot is marked '18R', meaning there is 18 Degrees of centrifugal advance built into that slot....

SO,
If you remove the oil felt in the top of the advance head (just under the rotor) you will find a small metal clip hiding...
Remove that clip, and you can flip the advance head around and get 5 more centrifugal advance out of that same distributor!

Advance head clip, (Very small and easy to loose!)


Advance head out of distributor,



here is the shaft, weights, advance head and springs out of the housing... Just a different view,



-------------------------------------------------

NOW, PAY ATTENTION!

*IF* You flip the advance head for more centrifugal advance, you MUST pull the distributor and rotate it 180!
The advance head is what locates the distributor rotor, and if you just flip the head without moving the distributor 180, the distributor will be 180 out with your engine.
..............................

*IF* you DO NOT move the advance head, and just change springs,
YOU DO NOT need to pull the distirbutor.

-----------------------------

If you are only changing springs, when you get to this point,



Just change springs and put the distributor back together like it came apart...
----------------------
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Unread 07-17-2008, 10:32 PM   #6
sgtbookie
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Thanks JH, this is perfect! Looks like I'll get a chance to dig through the distributor this weekend. Wish I would have done the TeamRush sooner.
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Unread 07-17-2008, 11:06 PM   #7
mcmud
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Thank You, for the time and effort you freely give bringing excellent tutorial's such as this to the forum. I am planning or I should say I was planning to plan to do this to my DD but was lacking in knowledge and experience to get it done. It's an I6, Weber, Jacobs Omni Pac with the Dura Spark cap and rotor. I would rather depend on the centrifugal advance rather than vacuum except for the WOT position which the Weber's high venturi vacuum will provide 10* near spontaneous advance, results from test I did last weekend with no other carb vacuum advance connected. I've also noted a total of only 6* on the centrifugal advance alone, so it's time to make an improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
If you take a close look at the top slot marked '13R' you will notice there is a 'Stop' or 'Limiter' in that slot...
If you notice the bottom slot is marked '18R', meaning there is 18 Degrees of centrifugal advance built into that slot....
Is there any amount of advance available from the '13R' even with the limiter in place? Say as in addition to the '18R' ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
NOW, PAY ATTENTION!

*IF* You flip the advance head for more centrifugal advance, you MUST pull the distributor and rotate it 180!
The advance head is what locates the distributor rotor, and if you just flip the head without moving the distributor 180, the distributor will be 180 out with your engine.
So do you mean to simply reposition #1 plug wire at the #6 position and then remove and reposition the remainder of the firing order, after the distributes 180* rotation?
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Unread 07-18-2008, 09:06 AM   #8
Mike Romain
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If you flip the advance for the higher rate, can you not just reclock the distributor wires rather than having to pull the thing and reset the timing?
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89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 07-18-2008, 02:34 PM   #9
sgtbookie
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Is there a trick to getting the pin out of the reluctor or does it not need to be removed when pulling it up?
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Unread 07-18-2008, 03:53 PM   #10
sgtbookie
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Ok, no trick, just really really careful prying... And when they say the pin is tiny, believe it. The Jeep gods must have been smiling on me to allow me to find it on my garage floor.

One hint on putting the pin back in. I used a very small, fine piece of wire to slide the pin back into the reluctor. That way if it slipped, it wouldn't fall back to the floor or get lost. Also help with lining up the notched part of the pin to the outside of the reluctor.

My weights were 6.75R & 7.75R (as shown in the pic with the new springs attached). Old springs were pretty worn and rusty, so I didnt mix and match).

Overall impression? Well it really seems zippy now, didnt know this old girl had this much spirit left in her. Didn't really let the first changes soak in enough for me to make a real accurate impression, but one thing I did notice that has calmed down immensely. When I used to de-accelerate my CJ would sound like a Harley (popping blah blah blah sound). That has all but cleared up, or is very minimal now.

Thanks again to the JeepForum family & JH for the writeup! .Ok, what's next?!?! This is fun!

[IMG][/IMG]
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Unread 07-19-2008, 09:53 AM   #11
mcmud
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I Dunno!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
If you flip the advance for the higher rate, can you not just reclock the distributor wires rather than having to pull the thing and reset the timing?
Seems kind a like a brain teaser, doesn't it. I'm also wondering why the advance head on sgtbookie's has so much less available advance than on JeepHammers. Are the heads available at parts houses with a selection of the total available advance?

How would one determine how much more or less tension spring to mount. I'm only guessing the greater the tension, the more resistance to advance.

Any input would be appreciated. I'm going in there this weekend.
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Unread 07-19-2008, 10:10 AM   #12
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmud View Post
Seems kind a like a brain teaser, doesn't it. I'm also wondering why the advance head on sgtbookie's has so much less available advance than on JeepHammers. Are the heads available at parts houses with a selection of the total available advance?

How would one determine how much more or less tension spring to mount. I'm only guessing the greater the tension, the more resistance to advance.

Any input would be appreciated. I'm going in there this weekend.
My CJ7 has the advance off the ported source and it goes like a scalded cat and gets 21+ mpg highway. The advance come on fast enough to actually 'hear' it thunk when it tops out inside the distributor when giving the gas a shot by hand.

I would be guessing you don't want the advance to come on slowly so you really wouldn't want heavier springs.

I think the advance is supposed to be at a certain place for a certain RPM, but as to how fast it should get there, well someone else hopefully knows more about it than I do.

I almost want to try the higher advance rate. I have a spare distributor I might tear apart and rebuild seeing as it seized up sitting in my trail spare parts box from non use so I might just swap the plate around.

I too am interested in knowing how to tell the spring rate...
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 07-19-2008, 10:14 AM   #13
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmud View Post
Is there any amount of advance available from the '13R' even with the limiter in place? Say as in addition to the '18R' ?
Just flip the advance head around so the limiter arm is in the '18R' slot and you gain 5 of centrifugal advance immediately...

Taking the plastic 'Bumper' off the limiter arm will gain you another degree,
Making the '18R' slot longer before you reinstall the advance head will gain you some extra centrifugal advance...

BUT BE CAREFUL!
This advance is directly activated by engine RPM, and you CAN over-do things!
I'd start out with the factory '18R' slot, then revisit this part once you have established your engine can handle the extra timing.

Quote:
So do you mean to simply reposition #1 plug wire at the #6 position and then remove and reposition the remainder of the firing order, after the distributes 180* rotation?
NO!
The rotor is directly hard linked to the advance head.
If you flip the advance head around to the '18R' setting, your rotor will be pointing 180 out from it's proper firing order.

To correct that, you simply lift the distributor until the drive gear clears the camshaft gear,
Rotate the rotor back around to where it needs to be, and reinstall the distributor in the engine.

Like I said, if you aren't comfortable with setting a distributor in an engine, DO NOT try and do this...

The advance slot changes the TOTAL of centrifugal advance you will get,
The springs change when in the RPM range that advance comes in.
Often times, just starting the centrifugal advance a little sooner, rather than adding a bunch more advance, will be enough to get your engine to jump to life.
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Unread 07-19-2008, 10:14 AM   #14
sgtbookie
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My only guess was Jeephammers Cj is a V8, (his profile says he is running an AMC 360), so maybe they ran heavier weights in the v8s? Post up what weights you have once you dig in.

One other thing that helped get the reluctor off was just a small amount of PB Blaster. Didnt want to go drenching anything, but just a drop or two loosened it up nicely. Watch out for that small pin!
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Unread 07-19-2008, 10:20 AM   #15
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
If you flip the advance for the higher rate, can you not just reclock the distributor wires rather than having to pull the thing and reset the timing?
Like I just covered,
You CAN move the plug wires around the cap,
BUT,
With the larger Ford style cap, it has a '#1' cast into it, and that can cause some confusion.

Plus, I usually mark the caps for cylinder wire placement (Firing Order) so if I have to make some 'Field Repairs' I don't have to wonder if I got the firing order correct...



You could move the firing order around the cap, but when you become comfortable enough with ignition work, it's no big deal to pull the distributor and reset it...
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