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Unread 11-03-2002, 07:33 PM   #1
scottahicks
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Power steering pump???

ok heres the deal, I have been doing a power steering conversion on my cj5 and I finaly got it all in there and was testing it out this evning but,,,,,,,,, NO POWER???? s oa couple questions, #1 can you hook the pressure line up to the wron hole on a box?? the box is a 74 I think and its connected closest to the bumper with the return line closest to the pitman arm. #2 if a pump is bad how can you tell??? I dont want to spend any more money than is absoloutly nessecary and if I replace the pump and thats noot the problem then i am screwed, so can someone help me out here, oh and so give you an idea of dating the box and pump both have flare fittings and I belive them to be around 1974 or so... HELP!!!!!!!!!!

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Unread 11-03-2002, 08:43 PM   #2
CSP
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You can't get the lines mixed up. The pressure and return lines both use different sized fittings. Did you bleed the air out of the system first?
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Unread 11-03-2002, 10:26 PM   #3
scottahicks
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bleed the air out first??????? dident know about that how would i do that?????
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1980 CJ5, 304 V8, flat top pistons, rv cam, quadra-jet carb, edelbrock intake, hooker headers, Purple Hornies 3" header glasspacks, Solid Driveshaft, t-176 manual 4speed, 3" body lift, 1foot extended front bumper for wrecker winch "no winch yet" 33X12.5X15 Wild Country XRT's on chrome wagon wheels, custom spray paint job, lots of rust, dents, oh and a driver that treats it like a jeep "screw the paint I can make it!" Daily Driven!!!!! Green Jeep Club member #37 Flamed Jeep Club member #1 and President
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Unread 11-04-2002, 10:21 AM   #4
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Didn't know there would be air in the lines huh? Yikes! Ok, jack the front tires off the ground so there's little resistance on the steering pump and box. You don't want to burn the pump out. Fill the pump with fluid and start the engine. Check the fluid level again. Slowly turn the wheel from lock to lock paying close attention to the fluid level. It will probably be very foamy as you are bleeding the air out by turning. The pump may make some groaning noise also. Keep doing this paying close attention to the fluid level until you see no more air bubbles while you turn the steering wheel. You may need a helper to turn while you watch for bubbles and add fluid.

I'm wondering where you received info on a power steering swap with no info about bleeding it out.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 02:12 PM   #5
scottahicks
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ok mr smartass,,,,,

as for where i got my info for conversion,,, I dident, I have a lot of general automotive knowledge however, aside from adding fluid and changing belts on power steering and knowing the principles behind it I havent done any change outs, I was not aware that the air in the lines would not work its way out on its own, and you might want to change your additude a little when giving a response to a request for help, I do appriciate the response and I have gone through that process but I belive the pump to be bad. just because someone dosent know something about a specific part of a vehicls dosent mean they dont know anything, rember that at one time you dident know how to bleed a power steering system either. this forum is intended to help everyone and you have but please refrain from the snide remarks, I want to thank you once again and please have a wonderful day.
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1980 CJ5, 304 V8, flat top pistons, rv cam, quadra-jet carb, edelbrock intake, hooker headers, Purple Hornies 3" header glasspacks, Solid Driveshaft, t-176 manual 4speed, 3" body lift, 1foot extended front bumper for wrecker winch "no winch yet" 33X12.5X15 Wild Country XRT's on chrome wagon wheels, custom spray paint job, lots of rust, dents, oh and a driver that treats it like a jeep "screw the paint I can make it!" Daily Driven!!!!! Green Jeep Club member #37 Flamed Jeep Club member #1 and President
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Unread 11-04-2002, 02:36 PM   #6
OldJeepguy
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Weird - I've never had to bleed a PS system and I've done plenty of work on them.
You can buy a pump rebuild kit at most auto parts stores - it costs about $22 here in Socal...
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Unread 11-04-2002, 03:01 PM   #7
55-willys
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i put power steering on a 55 M38-A1, cj, i used the steering box and pump off a 86 camero. the stuff had been sitting around for 4 or 5 years. the same thing happened when i first started my engine up and tried using my new power steering. the stering wheel made a lt of jerky motions and i thought something was messed up. i turned the wheel back and forth about 10 times and it felt a little better, but still not good. then i drove around the block, better but not right. i did notice that the steering fluid had gone down, added some and drove about 5 miles, steering fluid went down again, added some more and kept driving around. it took quite a few miles before my steering finally worked right. the return line on my box is the one closet to where the steering shaft hooks up to box. if looking at it from the front the high pressure is the one on the left. id say drive it and carry some fluid with you. check it every few miles, if it is going down then your getting rid of the air in the system. the only thing ive heard of happing to a steering pump is the front seal leaking.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 03:12 PM   #8
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as for someone doing a lot of power steering swaps and never having to bleed the air out. well that might be true if your just replacing the pump. ive replaced 2 or 3 boxes in my time and ive always had to drive them and turn the wheel back and forth until the air gets out. like doing a master cyl. sometimes you can get away with doing a bench bleed on the master cyl. then hook it up and everything works fine. then sometimes you bleed them, for what seems like hours, to get all the air out.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 03:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by 55-willys
as for someone doing a lot of power steering swaps and never having to bleed the air out. well that might be true if your just replacing the pump. ive replaced 2 or 3 boxes in my time and ive always had to drive them and turn the wheel back and forth until the air gets out. like doing a master cyl. sometimes you can get away with doing a bench bleed on the master cyl. then hook it up and everything works fine. then sometimes you bleed them, for what seems like hours, to get all the air out.
Exactly. If you change out the calipers on the front of your vehicle you don't have to bleed the rears do you (as long as the master doesn't get drained)? When a steering box is new or has been allowed to drain all of those fluid channels inside will have trapped air in them. Check valves and gravity keep the air in. Turning the steering wheel back and forth removes the air. Swapping a box is different than working on a power steering system such as replacing a pump or hoses. Any factory service manual will have an initial operation and fluid level section following the rebuild instructions for a power steering box. Part of that section is instructions on bleeding the system. Working on a Jeep doesn't mean that every possible situation has been encountered.

scottahicks: No intention of being a smartass was there. If you took it that way you read it wrong. I would say that 90% of the manual to power steering swaps done by Jeep owners are done after hearing about it from someone else or reading somebody's writeup. Most of them include some info about bleeding the box. Nobody said or implied that you know nothing. Nobody knows everything though. Without everyone knowing everybody's story on these message boards you gotta have a little thicker skin. Not everybody follows the "politically correct" philosophy. You're right about not knowing how to do certain tasks at one time. I didn't have the internet to learn about them or bail me out either. I researched as much as possible beforehand (service manual) or had someone with experience help me.

Last edited by CSP; 11-04-2002 at 03:36 PM..
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Unread 11-04-2002, 04:03 PM   #10
55-willys
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same here. ive been workng on vech. everything from jet-skis to porsches, for about 30 years, but once in awhile i come across something that i cant figure out. i have a friend that lives about 200 miles away and works has a mech. in a small shop. he is one of the best mech. ive ever known and always lends his advise to me. a days passed now, and your steering more than likely works by now.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 07:43 PM   #11
scottahicks
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no problem,, I guess I was inadvertantly venting a little bit on you and I apologize, i dident do any research because I know the basic theory behind poser steering and knew what parts I needed, the bleeding part was something I hadent even considered, after having the first person on a chat explain it it all made total sense, once again I appolagize for the venting there have been a lot of smartasses replying in my posts recently, mostly kids whic I expect and usualy ignore and I joke around a bit to i was probably mostly frustrated with the situation with the steering and vented a bit so no foul no harm,,, but i ordered a rebuilt pump this evning and it will be here tomorow, the pump is squeeling too much to be just air and such it sounds like berings and there seems to be a little play in the shaft so I figure better safe than sorry, 41.00 including the tax isnt much to pay for a little but of insurance i guess and a better chance at diagnosing the real problem thanks for the info guys
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1980 CJ5, 304 V8, flat top pistons, rv cam, quadra-jet carb, edelbrock intake, hooker headers, Purple Hornies 3" header glasspacks, Solid Driveshaft, t-176 manual 4speed, 3" body lift, 1foot extended front bumper for wrecker winch "no winch yet" 33X12.5X15 Wild Country XRT's on chrome wagon wheels, custom spray paint job, lots of rust, dents, oh and a driver that treats it like a jeep "screw the paint I can make it!" Daily Driven!!!!! Green Jeep Club member #37 Flamed Jeep Club member #1 and President
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Unread 11-04-2002, 07:56 PM   #12
OldJeepguy
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I wasn't meaning to give the impression that there is NEVER air in the system - only that there is no special things that need to be done to bleed it out. The design of the system itself bleeds it when you start the engine and turn the wheel. As someone else said, it may take a few trips around the block before it's working right.
I've replaced 5 PS pumps this year - 3 XJ's and 2 CJ's
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Unread 11-04-2002, 08:07 PM   #13
55-willys
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well thats why this sites here. it lets people voice the opion, and give different views. and nobody died. the squeling is the air in the pump. but your doing the best thing by replacing it. now when you start working the steering youll know the pump is good. it should make a whinning noise as the air is being bleed out. like i said, i had to drive mine for 10-20 miles before it worked right. just remember to carry some power steering fluid with you. youll be amazed how much it will go down as the air bleeds out. i think my whole system took about 2 quarts. no matter, its the best thing you can do for a jeep = power steering. whis id done mine years ago.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 09:39 PM   #14
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The reason I mention taking the front end off the ground and not using the driving method is to prevent seal failure. If you do not have fluid lubricating the inner wall of a seal it can easily tear. I was always taught to bleed them very slowly to keep those seals intact until you have good fluid around them. It's more of a peace of mind thing than a necessity. I put a new pump and box on a CJ two weeks ago and bled it out like I described. It took all of five minutes to rid the entire system of air bubbles. This also allows you to watch for leaks while you watch the fluid level. Kinda hard to watch for either if you're in the driver's seat. I can see just driving if you're just replacing a pump since the box is lower than the pump and there's no way for large amounts of air to get into it.
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Unread 11-09-2002, 07:32 AM   #15
scottahicks
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Ok I got the new pump from the parts store and went to a friends shop to use the proper puller and installer tools,,, dident go caveman style this time hahahha tool the pulley off the old one got the pumo out of the housing and when I pulled out the fitting i say the junk and corosion on the fitting and so I knew for shure that pump was bad, so I cleaned the resivoir out and waas about to install the other pump when I realized that the ony I the parts store gave me had a keyway and threads on it and mine was presfit fo back to the parts store I went, now I had to order the first fump next day order, but thank go the right pump after a little creative game of match the part it was actualy on the shelf, a quick swap and I was out the door, I swear i about killed my ribs trying to install that stupid pully, long ratchet on my ribs, pully in left hand and box end wrench in left hand and pull with right-bruis chest with ratchet and hold pully with left hand,,, it was another painfuly fulfilling experiance then I put it on too far and had to back it up. but it was on. took it home, installed it filled it with fluid, craked it up and 30 seconds later it started to feel like power steering, trurne it a while then realized some play in the steering see the next thread entitled power steering box brackets???
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If its broke I can fix it. if it isnt broke give me a minute!!!

1980 CJ5, 304 V8, flat top pistons, rv cam, quadra-jet carb, edelbrock intake, hooker headers, Purple Hornies 3" header glasspacks, Solid Driveshaft, t-176 manual 4speed, 3" body lift, 1foot extended front bumper for wrecker winch "no winch yet" 33X12.5X15 Wild Country XRT's on chrome wagon wheels, custom spray paint job, lots of rust, dents, oh and a driver that treats it like a jeep "screw the paint I can make it!" Daily Driven!!!!! Green Jeep Club member #37 Flamed Jeep Club member #1 and President
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