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Unread 04-30-2012, 10:58 AM   #46
Renegade82
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"I feel that this was an unfair curve ball to a beginner"
I'd agree. Out of the pan and into the fire! But then did you really think Murphy was gonna let you slide by??

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Unread 04-30-2012, 01:37 PM   #47
Kastraelie
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Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
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Good news everyone!

The shallow groove rings set (0.165") fit perfectly! I have no idea why my 92 engine has those pistons, but if its bolt together I wont be complaining.

Now to torque the rods caps on and pray I can still turn the crank....

Cross your fingers and:

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Unread 05-01-2012, 05:09 PM   #48
Kastraelie
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Nope.

So this means I:

1. Either have installed the rods caps and pistons incorrectly (I have quadruple checked and it's not likely at this point)

2. Need a different set of rod bearings

3. Need machine work

(or two and three).


...guess I have to abandon the engine for a bit and come back to it with more money in my pocket.



If my plastigauge is reading .001 how do I order a set that works for me...

What's this mean: .001" thinner is this what I am looking for? =/

I have my old bearings, but can't seem to be sure I find the right ones to match:

CLEVITE
77 A-7

Thanks for the help in advance



*EDIT*

I just read on that page that CLEVITE bearings are color coded....I did notice an ever so slight orange or red color on the sides of these old bearings. Problem is I am not sure how to BUY new bearings with this information. Any tips?
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Unread 05-01-2012, 05:34 PM   #49
inovermyhead2
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You will need to bring the crankshaft to a machine shop so they can put a micrometer on it. Then get a matched set of bearings to the dimensions of the crank journals. Really not a big deal, a five minute process
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1983 CJ7
350ci Chevy
SM465 Trans
Rancho 2 1/2" lift
Confer Engineering Shackles
32x11.50x15 BFG All Terrains


[QUOTE]whoever invented Torx bolts should be shot in the face, burned then pissed on - saskcj7[/QUOTE]
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Unread 05-06-2012, 11:52 PM   #50
Kastraelie
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LAST TIME on Noobs with Jeeps, our hero found his pistons were SHALLOW oil ring pistons. Quick thinking and a set of calipers helped him determine he needed a special set:



With the special rings, he was able to conquer his fitting issues and save the pistons from certain seizure:






But alas, another nemesis was on the horizon....with the new rod bearings installed, he could not turn the crank:







After an epic struggle our hero's crank was slightly nicked and marred...will he be able to solve his rebuilding challenges and save the 350 rebuild?




------

So yes, somehow I managed to scar the crank journal getting a stuck piston out. Maybe. It could have been the last guys...I'm not for sure certain I did it, but I don't know. I was really ready to give up at this point and buy a crate motor, but I decided to calm down, smoke a cigar, then come back to the problem with 1500 and 2000 fine grit 3M sandpaper. Yes, I realize that sanding the mars is going to create a gap and cause an issue, but I just wanted to deburr the marks and make it smooth to the finger so my nail couldn't catch. It seemed to work ok and I am just going to cross my fingers and hope I can get some miles out of the engine and save up for a performance stroker.

As inovermyhead brought up...I could have disassembled the engine, pulled the crank, and got it micd by a machine shop...and that was the plan. But it is racing season where I live and they are so far behind they quoted me at a month to get it micd! And that was the only shop I could get ahold of. This is what happens I guess when you live in an area with a TON of classic cars, drag cars (strip is down the road from me) and racing boats.

I decided that even though it made no sense, I was going to bet on the cheapo white box brand bearings that came in my Summit rebuild kit were just that--cheap. Maybe they were made out of a crappy metal that didn't torque right...I dunno. I purchased some Clevite77 bearings (the exact ones that came out of my engine) and hoped for the best....

AND IT WORKED!!!

Man I was ESTATIC! Got all of them in, and could turn the motor with 45lb of torque as in spec with them all torqued down. SWEET! I was very happy and decided to take a break from engines for a while and finish up the bed of my jeep.

So I did:




Well, I still need to grind down the blops, but I'll do that a bit later. I got the 14 guage in there in the back and it is pretty solid. I used the 1" steel angle iron to reinforce all the congruent seams. The only issue is that the Jeep body is so warped from being old as the hills, and it kinda shows a little bit with the steel in it. I might have to buy a plasma torch and cut it out and redo it and try to account for the warping...depends if I feel it needs to be better or not. I really don't know what I feel about the Jeep body so far...except in over my head. xD

Last edited by Kastraelie; 05-06-2012 at 11:55 PM.. Reason: fixed image
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Unread 05-06-2012, 11:52 PM   #51
Kastraelie
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Ok so back to the engine. I decided to get some parts painted and ready for re-assembly.

Using old fashioned elbow grease and a wire brush, plus a little help from my angle grinder (which didn't work so well, even with the stripper attachment) I got to work on the oil pan:




Then I blasted it with some phosphate stuff which preps the metal for painting:


Then I painted it!



Next it was time to tackle the exhaust. I powerwashed it in the driveway...



Phosphate cleaned it...


And then sprayed it with high-temp ceramic paint:



Then I did the valve covers:


Basically I painted them because I did all the nasty work of cleaning them up. When I had got them cleaned, I found out they wouldn't be useable due to cracks...everywhere. Gotta order a new set.

It was about this time that a wild Monsta Liner appeared:




On the box it said to do a hood shot. So that is my hood shot. It's as close as its going to be for...a long time.

Oh yeah, I noticed they were doing a special after I ordered. xD oh well don't sweat the small stuff. I'm excited to use it!

Next it was time to tackle the block. As I menioned before, the people who rebuilt it last got paint EVERYWHERE in the inside. When I opened the oil pan 2 parts oil and 1 part red paint flakes came out. Mostly because of the heads (which were painted without tape willy nilly) but also because of this:



Yes, that is where the oil filter goes.

Because I had lubed parts in the block I had to be careful how I cleaned it. Also I was DONE manually getting all the paint and grime off. It was time to do my part in destroying the ozone and use some chemicals.

I've used paint strippers before...but none as potent as this stuff. I am surprised they put it in an aerosol can. The mist from the overspray was hitting my arms and stripping my skin:



Pro tip: don't breath the fumes. Might as well burn poison ivy and inhale the smoke.

It works though. It works awesome. A layer of oil, red paint, and black paint came off with one spray. I almost could shop vac it off, though in some places it was a bit more stubborn but a wire brush helped convince it off:



Then I took it outside, jammed lint free paper towels in the engine, then about 50 grocery bags, and hit the engine with a powerful degreaser:


I did the phospate etching as usual, and basically was left with this:



Then I painted the block. I only have a teaser shot...but honestly there isn't much to see anyways without the heads:



It's going to be silver and black. Nope, its not the prettiest or most traditional color scheme out there, but will help me see and diagnose escaping fluids...I hope....
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Unread 05-07-2012, 08:42 AM   #52
Dudman5703
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This no budget build is a lot bigger than mine! xD
Looks good though!
Lovin' the bags on the engine
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Unread 05-07-2012, 08:55 AM   #53
2girlsAndaGuy
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coming along very nicely, you are a braver man than I. I wouldn't dare to take an engine down that far.
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Unread 05-07-2012, 10:04 AM   #54
jeepwhore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kastraelie View Post
................Well, I still need to grind down the blops, but I'll do that a bit later. I got the 14 guage in there in the back and it is pretty solid. I used the 1" steel angle iron to reinforce all the congruent seams. The only issue is that the Jeep body is so warped from being old as the hills, and it kinda shows a little bit with the steel in it. I might have to buy a plasma torch and cut it out and redo it and try to account for the warping...depends if I feel it needs to be better or not. I really don't know what I feel about the Jeep body so far...except in over my head. xD
Where are you noticing the warping problem? I noticed in one of your earlier pictures during the teardown of the tub that you didn't have the very rear of the tub supported. You removed alot of the structural integrity of the tub, it could have easily been tweaked if not adequately supported.
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The advertised position for a topless, dirty jeep girl has been filled......by my wife. Thanks to all that applied.
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Unread 05-07-2012, 12:21 PM   #55
Kastraelie
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Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudman5703 View Post
This no budget build is a lot bigger than mine! xD
Looks good though!
Lovin' the bags on the engine
Haha, thanks. Going to read yours now for some pointers...


Quote:
Originally Posted by littledochawk View Post
coming along very nicely, you are a braver man than I. I wouldn't dare to take an engine down that far.
I'm not brave just stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwhore View Post
Where are you noticing the warping problem? I noticed in one of your earlier pictures during the teardown of the tub that you didn't have the very rear of the tub supported. You removed alot of the structural integrity of the tub, it could have easily been tweaked if not adequately supported.
I only blame myself for the warping, really. The whole tub never set quite level even before I started hacking on it, but I should have tweaked it like you said when I removed the back material. I have no idea what I am going to do about it...I got it laying on its side in my garage right now and it is making me depressed.
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Unread 05-11-2012, 01:33 AM   #56
Kastraelie
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So I needed some good news after staring at this tub for a while. It looks like I have a Dana 44 and a NP208 03. What is their reputation amongst the Jeep elite here?

Update on the engine soon...
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Unread 05-12-2012, 07:10 PM   #57
Kastraelie
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Lots of questions needing answers. For now I'll get to the "progress"

I wanted to get the engine together so I wouldn't have to worry about the insides getting dirty again. So I got to work on the heads. I had sprayed them down before, but I decided I really should paint them before I install them so I could get the "clean gasket look" and be able to troubleshoot leaks easier. So starting with the non-stripped heads:



Then I noticed I should take off the ?temperature sensor?. I went to unbolt it and it broke off with almost no pressure. I tried no to panic and got the torch out. After I heated it up real good I tried to get it out with a screwdriver trying to grip the edges:



No luck there.. I started to get really frustrated and thought I would have to drill it out.



That didn't get me anything but a bruised hand. I was wearing one glove but didn't pull it back. Somehow the drill kicked back and the chuck which was on a rubber cord attachment whipped back and smacked my bare hand good. Stupid stupid...

I figured my only recourse was to take them to a machine shop and have them drilled out and retapped for an adapter. There was no way I was going to buy a 100+ dollar tap that big from McMasterCarr. I went inside for a bit frustrated and did some Googling...I noticed that a "screw extractor" was something that...existed. This wasn't precisely a bolt or a screw...but maybe it could work? Went to Sears...they didn't have anything near big enough. Then I went to Harbor Freight...they had a set with a #6.



I got it home and it worked perfectly...unscrewed it cleanly like a charm...and the threads on the head weren't damaged at all. I was feeling good about it again.

I used Mar Hyde aircraft paint stripper on the heads, then engine degreaser, then some good wire brushing and phosphate careful to only hit the outside. When I felt they were nice and prepared I hit them with the high temp ceramic paint, using my old rocker covers as a gobo:



Then I needed to clean up the head bolts which were dirty, grainy, and had red paint on them still:



I used the rocker covers...excuse me..valve covers...as paint strip buckets. These were perfect 'cause they held the bolts for the pressure washer while draining out the excess fluids:





After the initial chemical bath and spray I took them out for some wire brushing:



After the phosphate cleaning and drying they were ready for painting:



Next I needed to teardown the air intake and get it ready to paint:







A powerwash and chemical dousing:





Then it was ready to be painted...
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Unread 05-12-2012, 07:40 PM   #58
Kastraelie
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I realized I needed to paint a few more things before assembly, like the oil pan tension spreader (guessing its name):





Following the instructions from my Chevy service manual...which was written a long, long, time ago...I got the black RTV sealant (what I was referred to at the auto parts store) and did both sides of the cork/rubber hybrid gasket:



Taking special care to really hit the corners of the gasket with extra RTV as suggested, it was then time to bolt the oil pan down.

I had just bought a nifty set of nut drivers which made the initial placement of the nuts very easy:





Done:



Next were the headgaskets...the whole reason I was rebuilding the engine to begin with:





Using the torque process in the manual I went over them all in the special order with 20lbs, then two more times at 65, then 68:



It is starting to look more like an engine!



Before I put the intake on I needed to adjust the rockers. This part was frustrating and confusing for me. It should be a very simple process, I understand that. The problem was every instruction manual, site, or video was done by people that have done it before, and didn't include alot of important information...like for instance WHICH cylinder is #1. Noobs like me need to have everything spelled out in detail with pictures!

The book I was using was extra hard on dummys like me..."it will be easy to determine TDC because the #6 Cylinder lifters will be rocking." WTF does rocking mean? At what point during their up and down do I know when the lifters are ready to be adjusted??? Some more instructions online helped me piece together what I needed (I hope) and I got them all adjusted.



I took a picture of how I left the engine in what I THINK is TDC (or top dead center for you noobs like me) on the #1 piston. The right side of the image is the waterpump side. Left is transmission, obviously. So the lifters are decently far down and level. I really hope I adjusted them right...I went around in the order the book told me to (stupid book ) and adjusted the rockers while the lifters for both the exhaust and um, intake? cycles were DOWN. Someone please respond to this if you caught me doing something bad:



Oh, I have to mention this too as part of the write-up. I labeled EVERYTHING I took out of the engine and WHAT ORDER I took it out of. Unfortunately, everything did not include the lifters. I was told in a conversation at the time in passing they were all the same. I wish I labeled them 'cause the book and sources online were ADAMANT about "throwing them in the trash" if you forgot to label them. Apparently they are supposed to wear with your cam and mate with it permanently. I was pretty pissed that I had messed up this big. On the other hand from what I could find online the lifted are all the same going in new...and mine looked REALLY dang good. They sat perfectly flush on the acrylic plate I use for measuring levelness for my computer liquid cooling parts...and they didn't looked marked up. Plus I knew I had an aftermarket cam...so they could have been put in right before I bought the Jeep. It wasn't running cause it needed a radiator, if yall remember. I took it down to the autoparts store and asked one of the more experienced employees what he thought. He said they looked good in his opinion...and if it was his engine he might risk it, as long as oil traveled through them. I'm not saying his word is canon...but it made me feel better about making the decision to reuse them anyways and screw the book. I think its much more likely I did the rocker adjusting wrong and ill throw a rod and blow everything to kingdom come instead.

After getting the gaskets on and RTVd down I lowered the intake. I nailed it on its holes the first time (score!) so I did not have to readjust anything. I didn't have a 12 point socket that fit my torque wrench, so I winged 20lbs with my little hand wrench I picked up:



Basically I went around in the order the book told me to (centers outward) with only one hand about ten times.

Then it was time to take some nicer shots of my loves labor and have a cigar:











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Unread 05-12-2012, 07:59 PM   #59
Kastraelie
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Back to Body Butchering 101!

I needed to trip the bed lip:





After some cutting and etching:



Bottom cut:



Done, just need to grind the edges along with my other welds:



I had been debating whether to buy a torch setup or stick with conventional tools. I still might grab a torch...but it was more money than I could spend right now. The fact that getting oxygen and acetylene is a PITA stopped me from buying a Lincoln kit at Home Depot for 200 bucks minus the tanks...

I went with a Sawza..well, the Craftsmen version. BTW warranties on Craftsman stuff is only 1 year now. But it was big and the highest amperage Sawza I could find in stores. I bought blades that I trust to do my thick aluminum cutting for my computer case work:



Man it cut through all that tub like butter...even the cross members were no match:





I got all the cancer out of that side and exposed the front traverse support a bit to weld in a new one...or part of one anyways.

The next part was not easy. It was backbreaking, butt busting work...I needed to clean up all the edges and get the welds out of that thin material on the sides. The grinder was just dangerous with that material and angle, so it got minimal use. Mostly I used chisels:





And a little help from a bolt trimmer:



Eventually I got the welds, dead metal, and weld spots out of that drivers side area. I honestly am thinking about a new fiberglass tub though...I would rather patch this up, but my wife picked out a house and made an offer on it VERY suddenly. Looks like we are moving in one month. No more money at all to spend on this for a while, and not enough time to get the body fixed up.

Anyone wanna haul it away for 250 for me?
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Unread 05-12-2012, 08:01 PM   #60
Kastraelie
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Pictures were crappy in that last post...sorry.
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