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Unread 11-27-2011, 04:57 PM   #1
clarythedrill
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1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
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please help with wipers!!!!

hey,

i replaced the inop wiper motor on my 85 CJ7, a 4 wire version (same as the old one that stopped working), and it would turn itself on anytime the key was on. so, i bought a new switch, and i still have the same problem. when i turn the key on, it comes on, and the switch has no control over it now. i put the windshield down to see if i had pinched the wires and had a bare wire, but everything looked fine. so, what the heck is going on here? i dont not have a working washer pump, so there might be a short there. i dont need the washer pump, so if anyone knows what wires are for it, please tell me and i will cut them. i really need these wipers to work. thanks for any help.

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Unread 11-27-2011, 05:49 PM   #2
mulliflier
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where the motor connects to the wiring harness - maybe the hot wire is jumping power to the run wire...did you use dialectric grease?
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Unread 11-27-2011, 05:56 PM   #3
clarythedrill
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hey,

no, i didnt use any dialectric grease. i have some and i will give that a try. thanks.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 06:01 PM   #4
lucdog
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Before the old one quit, I'm guessing you had intermittent wipers. and the parts in the pictures in this thread http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/id...rness-1292830/

where the motor plugs in,were there 4 wires on both plugs.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 07:10 PM   #5
clarythedrill
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lucdog,

no, i didnt have intermittant wipers, only off, low, and high with a four wire motor. when i bought the jeep, it worked, and a few days after purchase i went to get it inspected and it quit then. when it quit, it quit about halfway through the stroke, not in the full up or down position. so, i bought a new 4 wire motor and hooked it up and when the key is on it startes wiping with the switch in the off position. so, i cleaned up the old switch and tried again with the same results. so, i bought a new switch, with 7 pins, the same as what was in it. i hooked up the new switch and it still comes on when you turn the key on, and turning the switch has no affects at all. i am certain there isnt a bare wire or short in the motor harness, but i guess i need to check everything under the dash for a short in the harness near the switch. if i have to cut the 4 wire harness and individually connect the wires to the switch pins, i will, but would rather not. thanks for any help.

EDIT: yes, the connector at the switch is a four wire connector, and the switch itself has 7 pins, as does the harness.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 07:48 PM   #6
lucdog
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Just like every other Jeep, things are not what their suspose to be. Non intermittent wipers 0nly use 3 wire motors, Hi,Low, and Park. the
4th blue wire is the delay/intermitent.
Did you look at the black box link, did you have one.
For a temp. solution, leave the four wire connection where you can get to it, plug it in if the jeep is your DD and its raining.

On edit, I can't help but think, it has to do with the non delay switch and the 4 wire motor. I will check a Jeep with a non delay setup tomorrow and get back.

At this point I'm not sure whats going on. Hopefully someone will chime in that knows for sure.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 08:15 PM   #7
clarythedrill
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hey,

thanks for the information. when i ordered the switch, there were two available from Morris 4x4. one was for an earlier model grouping and one for 82-86 year model CJ7s. there wasnt an option for one with intermittant and one without from Morris for my model year. the switch has 7 pins on it, and the harness has 7 sockets on it and the arrays match up and they plug together with no problems. since i am not using the washer pump, and dont plan to, if i cant get this figured out i will cut the four wires from the motor and attach connectors and plug directly into the pin on the switch that i need. i have a schematic of a switch, but it only has 5 pins, and mine has 7. if anyone has a breakout of what each of the 7 pins on the 7 pin switch control, and a breakout of what each of the 4 wires from the motor go to, i will put connectors on and attach that way.

as for the intermittant black box, i havent seen that under the dash, but i will look tomorrow when its light. thanks for all the help.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 08:22 PM   #8
Coiz
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I thought I remember reading somewhere that some of the wiper motors have the terminals in different locations in the connectors. Compare the new one to the old one and make sure the wire colors are in the same locations.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 08:25 PM   #9
clarythedrill
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Coiz,

wouldnt you know it, i through away the old motor when the new one arrived in the mail. what you are saying makes sense. you wouldnt happen to know the color order of the wires on a stock motor, would you?
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Unread 11-27-2011, 08:34 PM   #10
SecretSquirrel
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It's late I'm tired. and I don't remember how many wires my wiper motor has (I think 3, maybe 4 for washer control). But my motor always has power applied, the switch just changes where the power goes.

One wire is the high speed, one is low speed, and the other is park. The park is energized whenever the ignition is on to keep the wipers moving until they reaches the park position.

My wipers would not return park automatically, but would stop wherever when the swich was turned off. I ran a dedicated ground from the wiper motor mount to a known good ground and cured the not stopping at the home position.

It is possible you have a similar issue and your wipers are looking for "home".
If the switch wasn't the issue, I would run a good ground (the stock motor grounds through the windshield frame and hinges). If that didn't help I would replace the wiper motor, or run them off a different switch.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 08:37 PM   #11
lucdog
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I hope I can keep this straight, my 4 wire

motor plug-------------- switch plug

black ------------------red with black tracer
green -------------------white with blue tracer
blue -------------------yellow
red --------------------blue with white tracer
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 08:55 PM   #12
clarythedrill
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secret squirrel and lucdog,

thanks a million for the information. i repainted the vehicle with a thick coat of military CARC with the hinges and windshield removed, and they got a thick coat of paint also. so there might not be a good ground, so mine might be looking for park also. thanks for the color coding also, i will search the interwebs for a 7 pin break out in case i need to wire directly into the switch. thanks again.
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Unread 11-27-2011, 09:11 PM   #13
SecretSquirrel
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CARC is pretty thick stuff, so it is very likely you have a grounding issue,

Here is a thread with a schematic, which may be of some help to you:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/wiper-switch-1290707/
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Unread 11-28-2011, 02:11 AM   #14
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog View Post
Just like every other Jeep, things are not what their suspose to be. Non intermittent wipers 0nly use 3 wire motors, Hi,Low, and Park. the
4th blue wire is the delay/intermitent.
Did you look at the black box link, did you have one.
For a temp. solution, leave the four wire connection where you can get to it, plug it in if the jeep is your DD and its raining.

On edit, I can't help but think, it has to do with the non delay switch and the 4 wire motor. I will check a Jeep with a non delay setup tomorrow and get back.

At this point I'm not sure whats going on. Hopefully someone will chime in that knows for sure.

Bill
4 wire motors are used on non intermittent wipers also. The 4 wire is a bit of an improvement over the 3 wire but it takes more wiring and a special switch to operate it.

This is what happens with a 4 wire motor when you turn the Wiper switch to the OFF position:


When it finally reaches the park position:


What's going on in the last picture is important. When the wipers are in the park position, the park switch inside the motor moves to short out the motor windings acting as an 'electric brake' to keep the motor from turning. Without the 'brake' the motor can keep spinning after the power is cut off and drift right past the park position causing it to restart again moving to place the wipers in the park position.

The paradox is that if you lose your ground the brake wont work but neither will the motor operate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coiz View Post
I thought I remember reading somewhere that some of the wiper motors have the terminals in different locations in the connectors. Compare the new one to the old one and make sure the wire colors are in the same locations.
I have heard of many people getting new motors that are wired incorrectly.
I'm not even sure the colors are standard on replacement motors.
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Unread 11-28-2011, 03:25 AM   #15
lucdog
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Thanks John, I hoped you would chime in. Most of my Jeeps have parts from 3 others, so its hard to tell what came from the factory.

So are you thinking the OP needs a different switch.

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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