I got a set of the ceramic coated Edelbrocks, as I wanted the exhaust inside the frame rail. The quality appears to be fantastic, and the flanges are thick. Using Stage 8 fasteners. The Jeep isn't complete yet, so no comment on performance. Unfortunately, I believe Edelbrock has discontinued them.
Dang - I guess my post was less than helpful with them being discontinued.....apologies!
FYI, when I researched hedders for my 360, I read a number of negative reviews about the Hedmans, including fitment problems, bolts loosening all the time, and the finish rusting quickly,
In fact, I don't recall any hedder that I researched getting rave reviews.
Finally, I decided the extra 5-10 HP wasn't worth the trouble of hedders, and I went with stock manifolds. I don't mean to dissuade you, just do your homework, is all.
Luckily the AMC manifolds don't look terrible so for a stock to mild engine, even I wouldn't have a problem with them over running shorties. Now if they were some log-jam monstrosity like the 258 or some Chevy manifolds, I'd have a different opinion.
I agree with one of Matts comments that Headman headers rust fairly quick, even the coated ones. I have a couple of sets on my 360's. With that being said, I would still go with the Headman fenderwell headers. I love how they look and the way they bolt up with ease. The only thing that needs to be done is a trim job on your inner fenderwell, but that is still simple with hand snips or a grinder with a cutting disc.:grin2:
Now having side steps/nerf bars with what ever muffler you choose with fenderwell headers is another subject, but there is always a way to skin a cat! I have done it, just PM me for details. :wink2:
I had a set of headman inframe on my 83 for about 6 years before I sold it. Fit great, but yes, the supplied bolts are garbage. Bought Allen head bolts and that fixed the backing out issue, but it was not as bad as on the dual outlet headers for the inline 6.
My current build has fenderwell headers and I kinda like the sound/look. Gives it more of a classic Jeep feel.
Buy headman, keep them clean and they should last ( I'm in NC, and my Jeeps don't see salt).
I put Hooker fenderwell headers on my 78 401 CJ5 when I bought it cause it had fenderwells(wore out) on it already and it looked and sounded way cool.
The new high quality Hookers I put on only lasted a few years cause I drove it to work in the winter(PNW) and a lot of the road salt/chemicals ate them away bigtime really bad.
That was a few years back, It's been sitting and now I'm getting it running again and am going with stock manifolds like Matt has done. Check out pics of his on other threads here, they're beautiful!
Also learned from my limited research was the opinion that the stock manifolds flow VERY well for stock manifolds, even comparable to some headers. I read it somewhere on the interweb so it must be true:wink2:
I found my perfect stock set complete with surface rust for a mere 30 bucks on Craigslist. I'm gonna either paint mine the way Matt did his or possibly have them Ceramic coated. Either way, they will look fantastic, perform well and not have all the issues that headers have had since the beginning of time.
I've also read the stock manifolds flow well. I'm not sure if that's internet lore, or the truth. But, when I compare them to other stock manifolds, it seems easy to make that claim.
Besides, Shawn said it's true, so it must be. :wink2:
I've also read the stock manifolds flow well. I'm not sure if that's internet lore, or the truth. But, when I compare them to other stock manifolds, it seems easy to make that claim.
Besides, Shawn said it's true, so it must be. :wink2:
Since we're posting EMC videos, here's one that applies. Those are aftermarket manifolds too so the results would be even more pronounced if they'd used some log-style manifold. That LS also has a wide LSA cam so there's very little "communication", if you will, between the header and the intake manifold or the long-tubes would have shown even better. That works out in your favor because most of these Jeeps have mild, wider-LSA cams so it is pretty close to apple-to-apples.
I actually thought there'd be larger increases with the hedders over the manifolds.
They seemed to speak pretty highly of the cast iron manifolds. The one guy even mentioned that's what he'd use in a Jeep. I just don't see long tubes being very practical for a CJ. Perhaps, for a mall-crawler, but......
Shawn, do you think the percentage of HP increase that hedders provide would stay consistent with engines of different power? In other words, they saw a 3% increase with the shorties on a 470 HP engine. Would that percentage apply to a 200 HP engine, as well? So, you'd gain a whooping 6 HP?
I actually thought there'd be larger increases with the hedders over the manifolds.
They seemed to speak pretty highly of the cast iron manifolds. The one guy even mentioned that's what he'd use in a Jeep. I just don't see long tubes being very practical for a CJ. Perhaps, for a mall-crawler, but......
Shawn, do you think the percentage of HP increase that hedders provide would stay consistent with engines of different power? In other words, they saw a 3% increase with the shorties on a 470 HP engine. Would that percentage apply to a 200 HP engine, as well? So, you'd gain a whooping 6 HP?
Also though, the bigger more powerful engine the bigger the difference in power. Hell when we went from 2" to 2 1/8" headers we dropped .2 in the quarter, but thats a drag car and a BBC, not a jeep. Id imagine a hot 360 or specially a 401 would benefit more from long tubes.
Also, Id imagine Hooker cast manifolds fowl better than the factory, especially on an old AMC or SBC engine, the newer LS manifolds flow pretty damn well.
That's a difficult question to answer, Matt. Holley sponsored that video so, of course, the manifold they used was better than probably any OEM manifold out there. Had they baselined with an OEM manifold from the '80s, there would have been a much bigger difference between the two.
These narrow Jeep frames don't make long-tubes very easy and going outside the frames doesn't give you enough length to do it right so who knows? I don't know if I'd fight it or not on a mild mall crawler. At least not with an AMC that has a pretty decent manifold to begin with. Then again, some of us psychos wouldn't be able to sleep at night if we tried to use manifolds with no attention paid to pipe diameter, length, anti-reversion steps, etc.
I pulled out all the stops (shy of a custom header) when I did my 258 and it made a noticeable difference. My "noticeable" and yours may be completely different but for me, it was worth the trouble.
Have you made any decisions, kirbot? Whichever way you decide to go, I would recommend tying both sides together with a smooth y-pipe and use a muffler that has an inlet that's larger than the pipe you're using (2.5 inch pipe into a 3 inch muffler, for example) so you can make a decent anti-reversion step.
There's a lot of energy that can be used on the exhaust side if you do it right and you'd be surprised at how much an anti-reversion step can improve your part-throttle and lower-rpm performance.
I'm still kinda hung up trying to decide on this one.
I'm leaning towards some long tubes, but I might try cleaning up my manifolds first. See if they're salvageable.
The anti reversion thing sounds interesting. Not something I ever heard of before, but I'll check it out
Are you aware of any commercially made 2.5" good anti-reversion setups for a CJ-7? Everything I see at Summit and Jegs is for 3 or 3.5". Approximately where (how far downstream from the manifold flange) would you put this in line with stock free flow manifolds that are run inside the frame rails? Are they supposed to be run with standard turbo or chamber mufflers for street vehicles?
I got a set of Patriot shorty headers. I mainly wanted shorty headers in order to route the exhaust exactly like I wanted it. They fit quite alright, but the passenger side header does sit quite close to the firewall.
One thing I've learned over the last 20 years is that you have to come up with a well-formulated lie when you wheel into the exhaust shop. If you just cruise in telling them that you want a certain pipe diameter for 18 inches into a wave termination box, a crossover at 2.5 inches in a certain spot with anti-reversion steps into the muffler, etc. you'll find yourself in a long-winded conversation about the need for backpressure because the exhaust valves won't open equally or God knows what.
So if they puff their chest out about why you want a certain length or diameter, just tell them, "so I have the proper amount of backpressure!" Works every time, lol
As convenient as the stock manifolds are, I don't know if I can see giving up that much power...
Is there any such thing as QUIET fenderwell headers?
Seems like people usually run them through glasspacks, but what about normal mufflers? Would they even fit?
As convenient as the stock manifolds are, I don't know if I can see giving up that much power...
Is there any such thing as QUIET fenderwell headers?<<<<<<
Seems like people usually run them through glasspacks, but what about normal mufflers? Would they even fit?
Yes, there are quieter mufflers you can use with fenderwell headers, but you need to get ones that have both inlet and outlet offset to the outside. Also you have to relocate the middle body mount for this application. Its not a big deal if you weld. I used Flowmaster HP-2's on my last build and love the sound. I don't think its loud as my friends truck with a SBC and glass packs. Just food for thought.
I'm not sure on how quiet things can be with outside duals. I used to love them back when we were cruising the Vegas strip in Cobras (1995) but it just makes me nuts now. Left bank; blub blub, right bank, blub, left blub blub blub, right blub blub, right blub, left blub blub blub etc...
A lot of guys love that sound but it drives me crazier than I already am, lol.
I just bought a set of the Hedman Elites. I have these and the 360 in a TDK frame.There are a few tight spots but for the most part should be OK. May have to grind a little off of your clutch fork, I did. A socket clears the flanges so plugs are easy to remove. Have had some headers where a socket binds up against the flange....not these. They ride close to the passenger frame rail but I just might need to push the motor to the drive side a bit. Here are some pics:
They look awesome.....
I'm digging the valve covers too. Mine are borked, and I'm still debating between the $30 chrome ebay specials, and the edelbrocks.
I think I'm going to go ahead with the Elites. They look too good to pass up
Pricey, but the machine shop is going to have my block, crank and heads for about 2 months, so I have plenty of time to save up.
Frankly, I don't know what my compression is. I can tell you my engine pulled 325 HP/360 torque on the dyno, which is considerably higher than stock, so I'm guessing my compression is higher, too. I do run premium, but don't really notice a difference over regular.
As for exhaust, my main concern was keeping it tucked up as high as I could, not a few extra ponies. I'm also a fan of a nice quiet exhaust. My days of obnoxious rumbling side-pipes are over.
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