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Unread 04-24-2013, 10:40 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Thanks EA... I thought I remembered reading about ring wear, which is beyond my compression ()! I may look into a 4.0 head swap or even another engine. I guess the sky's the limit now. I have gone through a tank of fuel system cleaner, but not something complete with the fervency as you. Since I work PT at AZ I can get this stuff at a discount, so I will try it in the interim.
I think, based on what you've said, that the only extra thing I've done is the motor flush. This is only as complicated as changing the oil, only takes five minutes longer. Pour the flush in with the oil, run the motor for five minutes, change the oil and filter. Done.

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Unread 04-24-2013, 05:38 PM   #17
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Guys... Thanks for the replies. My son DDs this Jeep, and he is at school. I won't be able to act on these ideas until this weekend. I'm not ignoring anyone, I just don't have it to work on right now. My son just called me and said there is much MORE going on. CRIPES!

EA... I do not have any pics of the top of the head or the bottom of the valve cover. The rockers are not gunked up, and both ports on the VC are/were clean and clear.

The air breather that is installed at the back of the VC had a very thick foam center. It was so thick I felt like it wouldn't allow any fresh air through it, so I pulled some of the foam out. Did I screw up by doing that, or is it possible I need to remove more?
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Unread 04-24-2013, 05:49 PM   #18
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Scott,

How many miles are on you son's engine?

I hate to say it, but bad rings, or gunked up valves, are the two main causes of blow-by.

If you exhaust all the previous suggestions, a compression/leak-down test should expose the problem.

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Unread 04-24-2013, 05:50 PM   #19
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Did the problem start after you removed some of the foam?

Matt snuck in on me.

I agree a compression test is or would be high on my list of things to do next if your current setup was fine then all of a sudden it started puking oil.
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Unread 04-24-2013, 07:31 PM   #20
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Scott,

How many miles are on you son's engine?

I hate to say it, but bad rings, or gunked up valves, are the two main causes of blow-by.

If you exhaust all the previous suggestions, a compression/leak-down test should expose the problem.

Matt
Matt... no idea how many miles. It was a hunting buggy prior to being Clay's rig. Other than that, I have no history. I can't get the miss out of it, but it has plenty of pep, and it doesn't smoke.

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Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
Did the problem start after you removed some of the foam?

Matt snuck in on me.

I agree a compression test is or would be high on my list of things to do next if your current setup was fine then all of a sudden it started puking oil.
86... The breather has been a part of it since we put it on the road. I pulled the foam from the very beginning, first use. This problem evolved after a short period of time. But We've also gone through short periods where it wasn't evident.


Teach me how the bad rings/gunked valves would cause the excess cranckcase pressure. Guessing this is the principle problem.
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Unread 04-26-2013, 08:09 AM   #21
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I wish there was some way I could really express myself through the written word, but, alas, I haven't the gift! So I will just tell you of the latest adventures of "Working on Dem Jeeps at de Kerrs". I explained to Clay how we were going to flush the oil system. I told him to go to AZ and get the motor flush material, stop at WM and get some cheap oil (I wanted to drain the current and flush with new), read the label and follow the directions carefully. While I was at work yesterday a buddy called me. He explained how worn rings causes excess pressure... so now I know what blow-by really is! So the motor flush is making sense, cleaning the oil passages to the upper part of the engine, allowing gases to move as well as oil (I'm thinking!). Yesterday was one of my long days. I didn't get home til nearly 10PM. Clay had flushed everything, twice. Out of experience and wisdom, I had bought 2 gals of Rotella, Bosch oil filter, engine flush, and Restore. If I didn't need it I could put it on the shelf. But it ends up that I needed it. ALL of it! Clay flushed the engine twice, using new oil, TWICE, with an oil additive (Rislone, similar to Restore). He dumped $40 worth of petroleum distillates right through the block. Then he took my truck to school this morning, and I have to be at work at 3:15. So I gotta fnish the Jeep.
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Unread 04-26-2013, 10:01 AM   #22
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*UPDATE* Film at 11...

I filled the engine with Rotella. Dumped in the Motor Flush. Carefully following the label directions. Let it run 5 minutes. Dumped the thinned, slightly grayish oil. Installed new filter and drain plug. Poured in a can of Restore and more Rotella. Cranked her up. With engine running and PCV plugged in.... I held my thumb over the breather hole (minus the breather) and no vacuum formed, but also no visible pressure. I plugged my vacuum/pressure gauge into the breather hole into the top of the VC, and I confirmed no vacuum, no pressure. BUT, idling with slight throttle (compliments of my beautiful assistant), oil is STREAMING out of the DS tube!

FUDGE.

Does this mean rebuild?
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Unread 04-26-2013, 10:20 AM   #23
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Again, a compression and/or leak down test should tell you what's going on.

Matt
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Unread 04-26-2013, 11:52 AM   #24
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And you can pull the PCV out of the gromet and it will suck your finger against it?

If this is true and your gaskets are all in good shape its time for a compression test.

What's your manifold vacuum at idle? And is it steady?
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Unread 04-26-2013, 12:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Again, a compression and/or leak down test should tell you what's going on.

Matt
Roger. I'll pick up a tester this evening at work.

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Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
And you can pull the PCV out of the gromet and it will suck your finger against it?

If this is true and your gaskets are all in good shape its time for a compression test.

What's your manifold vacuum at idle? And is it steady?
Vacuum was tested as a result of this problem. Manifold vacuum at idle at the carb base is a constant 20hGs. I can get it up to 21, but I turned it back down to 20 per somebody's advice. The PCV will grab your fingertip aggressively!



I was just tinkering some more... I pulled the breather in the VC and taped over the hole. The PCV is hooked up to the back of the VC with good vacuum. I pulled the DS and placed my finger over the tube. Revved the engine to somewhere around 2000 RPMs and held it. I was thinking the pressure might blow out whatever COULD be plugging the oil passages to the upper part of the engine. That didn't happen though, rather the oil started blowing out of the front of the oil pan seal!!

I will compression test tomorrow, and I'll pull the VC to inspect the top and oil passges.
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Unread 04-26-2013, 01:52 PM   #26
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I'm hoping you don't have a cracked piston or a hole in one of them.

Did you ever have a problem with detonation?

You only have 6qts of oil in their correct?
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Unread 04-27-2013, 12:10 AM   #27
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I'm hoping you don't have a cracked piston or a hole in one of them.

Did you ever have a problem with detonation?

You only have 6qts of oil in their correct?
Never had a detonation problem, but I did have one hellacious backfire when I set the dizzy 180* off, initially... way back when. But the engine runs really well. Sounds good, no "nosies", revs immediately, plenty of power. Confirming 6 quarts of oil...


Picked up a tester at work. Will get into that after I wake up!
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Unread 04-27-2013, 10:03 AM   #28
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Here are the results for the compression test.

I started the engine and warmed it up to normal operating temps. This was done at idle for maybe 15 minutes. I pulled all of the plugs. I then started with #1. My Auto Zone boss used to have a shop. He told me to record the very first number that registered as well as the maximum. So I did that. Hence, the two numbers. The first number being what was measured the first hit of the compression stroke, and the second number being what it maxxed out at. Then, using a syringe, I shot a couple teaspoons of oil into the cylinder and tested it wet. I did the wet test at each cylinder as I got to it. After the wet test was completed I installed the plug to keep from having oil spray in my face. I completed the dry test first, then I went back and did the wet test, one at a time, until all 6 were done. Here are some pics...

The tester I bought
Engine overview.
The plugs are in order from left to right, beginning with #1.
I hope you can read the numbers. It is very bright outside.
The tape over the breather hole bulges outward when you rev the engine. You can see it "breathing"!

Thanks for the attention fellas...
cimg0991_1.jpg   cimg0992_1.jpg   cimg0997_1.jpg   cimg0998_1.jpg   cimg1002_1.jpg  

cimg1006_1.jpg  
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Unread 04-27-2013, 11:37 AM   #29
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This is probably gonna be overkill, but here goes. I wanted to make sure I had some good photos. The Jeep is sitting half under shelter so there is an obvious shadow. These pics are of the rockers. I took a bunch!


Cylinders 1 and 2 from driver's side.



Cylinders 3 and 4 from DS.



Cylinders 5 and 6 from DS.



Overall shot.



#1 cylinder from Passenger Side.



#2 cylinder from PS.



#3 cylinder from PS.



#4 cylinder from PS.



#5 cylinder from PS.



#6 cylinder from PS.



And valve cover. It is metal.
cimg0974_1.jpg  
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Unread 04-27-2013, 12:13 PM   #30
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You held the throttle wide open with all plugs out for the dry test?

The wet test was wide open with only the plug out you were testing?

No matter how you did it the numbers a re close enough to me I can't see a injured cylinder. But you must have blow by because you can't build vacuum in the engine by blocking the breather and the dipstick tube.

If you shine a flashlight into the oil drain plug hole is there and broken piston skirt material?
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