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Unread 07-09-2013, 10:25 AM   #1
eric0o1
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Painless CJ harness getting an update...requests?

It's been awhile since I've been on this forum, but my name is Eric and I've been going over our CJ harness, part #10110, to bring it up to date with other model/year specific harnesses I've been doing. The manual for the CJ harness has to be one of the worst of all the harnesses we build, so that is priority #1.

as soon as I am done, it will resemble this one: http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/20114.pdf

I am posting to get feedback from those who have installed part #10110. Iím looking for your suggestions in what you would have changed, what you liked, any kind of criticism or anything about the harness. I have already fixed known issues like clarifying duraspark connections, adding column connections for CJ with nss/backup light switch on the column, and adding factory connections to the tail lights (Weather-Pacs will be provided for those with aftermarket lights and for those who prefer that style connection as opposed to the factory "trailer" plug connections.

For those who are not familiar with our CJ harness, what are you looking for in a harness?

I have gone through this process of seeking customer opinion on our early bronco harness before and really liked the way it turned out.

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Unread 07-09-2013, 10:42 AM   #2
walkerhoundvm
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Excellent I have it sitting on my shelf waiting for that stage of the build, but I've been wondering about one particular circuit - the one for the manifold heater that's served through a relay: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/wi...ratch-1460696/

That's not in the current p/n 10110, is it? The thread above is mine, and the circuit is FUBAR'd, so I'll probably be wiring it from scratch?

Thanks Eric!
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Unread 07-09-2013, 12:52 PM   #3
eric0o1
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It is not in the current one, and probably not in the newer version either due to the added cost, This is something still left to be explored as I am just now working on the dash harness re-work, then moving on to the engine harness. In the 10110 you have, there is a choke circuit that can be used to go to one side of the oil pressure switch, then from the oil pressure switch to the choke and to the relay. How far off are you from doing the re-wire?
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Unread 07-09-2013, 01:07 PM   #4
walkerhoundvm
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That choke circuit might work, as I've got a TBI installed now.

I'm about $8000 away from doing the rewire
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Unread 07-09-2013, 01:21 PM   #5
eric0o1
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as soon as I draw the relay heater circuit diagram for the new manual I will email it to you.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 02:37 PM   #6
rplivin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric0o1
as soon as I draw the relay heater circuit diagram for the new manual I will email it to you.
I would like it also I have the same harness.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 04:54 PM   #7
row684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric0o1
It's been awhile since I've been on this forum, but my name is Eric and I've been going over our CJ harness, part #10110, to bring it up to date with other model/year specific harnesses I've been doing. The manual for the CJ harness has to be one of the worst of all the harnesses we build, so that is priority #1.

as soon as I am done, it will resemble this one: http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/20114.pdf

I am posting to get feedback from those who have installed part #10110. I’m looking for your suggestions in what you would have changed, what you liked, any kind of criticism or anything about the harness. I have already fixed known issues like clarifying duraspark connections, adding column connections for CJ with nss/backup light switch on the column, and adding factory connections to the tail lights (Weather-Pacs will be provided for those with aftermarket lights and for those who prefer that style connection as opposed to the factory "trailer" plug connections.

For those who are not familiar with our CJ harness, what are you looking for in a harness?

I have gone through this process of seeking customer opinion on our early bronco harness before and really liked the way it turned out.
What about fixing the clock/tac loop? I can't recall right now why it doesn't work as it has been a year since I installed mine but it has been talked about on this forum before.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 05:05 PM   #8
djmart
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I gave up and paid someone to do it. Paid and arm and s leg and he had it for months, They build mudders and he got it wrong (F&S Racing). Though all new components...Tach never worked, voltmeter crapped out, fuel gauge needle just dropped, emergency brake light now flickers and no power in the radio or lighter line.

I am guessing all he would have to do is call your tech line.
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Unread 07-09-2013, 07:23 PM   #9
rcgkaw
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dash light sockets

dash lights worked for awhile now I have none. Where should I start looking? I dislike the sockets for dash bulbs
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Unread 07-09-2013, 07:25 PM   #10
row684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmart
I gave up and paid someone to do it. Paid and arm and s leg and he had it for months, They build mudders and he got it wrong (F&S Racing). Though all new components...Tach never worked, voltmeter crapped out, fuel gauge needle just dropped, emergency brake light now flickers and no power in the radio or lighter line.

I am guessing all he would have to do is call your tech line.
I did mine with my father in two afternoons; you should get your money back!
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Unread 07-09-2013, 08:58 PM   #11
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric0o1 View Post
It is not in the current one, and probably not in the newer version either due to the added cost, This is something still left to be explored as I am just now working on the dash harness re-work, then moving on to the engine harness. In the 10110 you have, there is a choke circuit that can be used to go to one side of the oil pressure switch, then from the oil pressure switch to the choke and to the relay. How far off are you from doing the re-wire?
That would be the prefered way of running the choke with or without the manifold heater. it prevents the choke from opening up until the engine is actually running. Otherwise your choke will open to fast causing starting or cold running problems.

You would still need a power source for the heater that is run off a fusable link to the battery post on the started solenoid.

The tach should be no problem with just an inline plug that matches the factory tach connection. Don't even need to add any wire. Should be in the wire going to the coil resistance wire and ICM or does your harness use a ballast resistor? I haven't studied your harness in a little while.

Aftermarket tachs work differently and the customer can figure out his own.

If you are going to rework the harness behind the dash, Please add a dedicated ground to the speedometer housing. 95% of non operating gauges come from burning up the gauges because they loose the ground connection.


Also, is there a certain light switch you use for your harness? in 1979 AMC used a different light switch and the two are not compatible. You should require the buyer to purchase the proper light switch.

I know I'm going to have to purchase one of your harness soon as 15 years of snowplowing has caused too many wire to corrode. I can protect the plugs but the copper in the wires are crumbling away.

Do you guys make and sell a relay conversion harness? Sound right up your alley.
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Unread 07-10-2013, 07:36 AM   #12
row684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk
Do you guys make and sell a relay conversion harness? Sound right up your alley.
Heck yeah! If it was clean and plug and play I'd but one for each of my CJ's! http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/he...t-mods-686559/ post #4
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Unread 07-10-2013, 07:45 AM   #13
eric0o1
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factory tach and clock connections have been added, as well as lighting, ground, power, & signal for aftermarket tachs. There is also dedicated ground at every component for guys with fiberglass bodies. The ground circuit is all integrated in the harness and connects directly to the negative side of the battery. I've also upgraded the charge wire to a 6 gauge from a 10 gauge and the inline fuse to isolate the alternator and battery is now a 150 amp MIDI fuse instead of a 70 amp MAXI fuse. The maxi fuse was difficult to find at auto parts stores.

DJmart, unless the shop was really busy there is no way it takes that long to install this harness. Most can get it accomplished in less than 2 weekends, and even those installs have frequent beer runs. The thing most of your issues have in common comes is power from the "GAUGE" fuse and ground. The radio is powered through it's own fuse so power to the radio will be easy to check. As for the cig. lighter, that comes from the horn fuse, see if the horn works, if so then the only reason the cig. lighter would work is if the power wire is broken or it is not grounded.

The e brake light flickering, are you talking about the one in the cluster? If so, that is ground activated from the ebrake and low brake switch in the engine compartment. I would be willing to bet the ebrake switch is connecting to ground when the engine is running due to vibrations. Unplug the ebrake switch and see if the issue continues. If it stops then look at replacing or fixing the ebrake switch. If it does not fix the issue, unplug the low brake switch. It the issue still continues then the black wire going from the low brake switch and e brake switch to the brake warning light has a short in it and is shorting to ground.

rcgkaw, there is an inline fuse right next to the headlight switch connection, this fuse is protection for the gauge light circuit. What did you not like about the sockets?

John, the harness will come with a ballast resistor, however depending on the ignition and/or coil it will not be needed by some. What is the difference in the switch? I remember looking at it about 2 months ago and realizing the way we have the headlight switch connector wired it wasn't an issue. Unless I missed something. Also, what relay conversion harness? This?http://www.painlessperformance.com/w...rchField=30815
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Unread 07-10-2013, 08:28 AM   #14
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric0o1 View Post
factory tach and clock connections have been added, as well as lighting, ground, power, & signal for aftermarket tachs. There is also dedicated ground at every component for guys with fiberglass bodies. The ground circuit is all integrated in the harness and connects directly to the negative side of the battery. I've also upgraded the charge wire to a 6 gauge from a 10 gauge and the inline fuse to isolate the alternator and battery is now a 150 amp MIDI fuse instead of a 70 amp MAXI fuse. The maxi fuse was difficult to find at auto parts stores.


Quote:
DJmart, unless the shop was really busy there is no way it takes that long to install this harness. Most can get it accomplished in less than 2 weekends, and even those installs have frequent beer runs. The thing most of your issues have in common comes is power from the "GAUGE" fuse and ground. The radio is powered through it's own fuse so power to the radio will be easy to check. As for the cig. lighter, that comes from the horn fuse, see if the horn works, if so then the only reason the cig. lighter would work is if the power wire is broken or it is not grounded.

The e brake light flickering, are you talking about the one in the cluster? If so, that is ground activated from the ebrake and low brake switch in the engine compartment. I would be willing to bet the ebrake switch is connecting to ground when the engine is running due to vibrations. Unplug the ebrake switch and see if the issue continues. If it stops then look at replacing or fixing the ebrake switch. If it does not fix the issue, unplug the low brake switch. It the issue still continues then the black wire going from the low brake switch and e brake switch to the brake warning light has a short in it and is shorting to ground.
It should also be wired into the ignition switch as it turns on the ebrake light during cranking to verify that the light works. Must of been some federal regulation as it sure made the ignition switch complicated.

Quote:
rcgkaw, there is an inline fuse right next to the headlight switch connection, this fuse is protection for the gauge light circuit. What did you not like about the sockets?

John, the harness will come with a ballast resistor, however depending on the ignition and/or coil it will not be needed by some. What is the difference in the switch? I remember looking at it about 2 months ago and realizing the way we have the headlight switch connector wired it wasn't an issue. Unless I missed something. Also, what relay conversion harness? This?http://www.painlessperformance.com/w...rchField=30815
Maybe it's easier to explain with a picture.


Earlier switched had a jumper and this terminal supplied power to the dome light or courtesy lights if you had them. No fuse for parking lights, used power from headlight and internal Circuit breaker for protection.
Later ones didn't have the jumper and the terminal drew power from the Fuse for the parking lights.

Causes some wierd problems if they were mixed up in the OEM harness bur since you make your own harness, you could specify what switch to use. But if your harness follows the later switch a customer plugging in an early switch may have problems.

I guess you could wire it up so it's universal if you use the same circuit to run the headlights also run the parking lights. Like the earlier style. But if you loose one circuits like headlights short out, you loose all lights. Unless you bypassed the internal breaker and run separate circuit breakers off the switch. It must of been another federal regulation to keep headlights and parking lights circuits separate back then.


in more detail
here is the connector for 76 to early 79:


the orange wire coming off terminal #51 goes to the dome light or courtesy lights.

here is a schematic for late 79 to 86:


That same Terminal is now #18-A and runs from the fuse box.





This is it exactly!! I had no clue you made one. THis is nice. Who distributes this? are those water proof connectors on the relays also?
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Unread 07-10-2013, 08:31 AM   #15
walkerhoundvm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric0o1 View Post
Also, what relay conversion harness? This?http://www.painlessperformance.com/w...rchField=30815
Nice! You need to do a better job of marketing that - most CJ owners are looking for brighter headlights, and most of those guys end up doing this sort of upgrade...but NONE of us knew about your product. The only problem is it's about $100 more than a DIY job or what some of us typically have been using - http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...ys/relays.html

Edit: Amazon has it for $135, but on your site it's $220 O_o that makes it about $180 more than Dan's kit!
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