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Unread 08-03-2010, 12:06 PM   #16
SeaWulf
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What about a small block ford? It'd be a bit more original than a SBC, which are practically dime-a-dozen in jeeps nowdays

FI 302 and T18 can be found for good prices

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Unread 08-03-2010, 04:48 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SeaWulf View Post
What about a small block ford? It'd be a bit more original than a SBC, which are practically dime-a-dozen in jeeps nowdays

FI 302 and T18 can be found for good prices
Why would he want a downgrade?

For the cost of the stroker and all it'll take to get it "right", he could rebuild the 283 if he's dead-set on that motor, and still come out ahead on the HP.

There's just no comparison....you have to work hard to get HP out of that 6 cylinder.....but take that V-8, slap some good heads on it, a mild cam and an intake, and you're rolling.

And even if you get 275hp out of the 6......he's obviously after more power. Most folks won't be satisfied with 275hp for long.....they will be at first, because it's better than stock....until their buddy with a stock 350 spanks their butt from a stop light, and he has less money in his entire conversion than you do in just your motor.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 05:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Pathkiller View Post
And to whoever said above that a 283 makes 260hp stock, I laugh. Stock ratings were in the 160hp-185hp range.
You are wrong. The Chevy 283 was the first factory V8 to claim 1hp per cubic inch, in the 60's you could order a 283 with 283hp. Stock ratings were in the 160hp-283hp range.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 05:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Pathkiller View Post
Everyone quoting HP numbers on 283s needs to take a lesson on the difference between gross and net HP ratings. After 1971 all HP numbers are net ratings, which are 25-30% lower than gross ratings. So take your 185hp (gross) 283 and subtract 25% and it puts out a whopping 139hp (net). Even a stock 4.0L was 180hp (net). No comparison. Sure, the fuel injected high-zoot version of the 283 put out 283 hp (gross, only 212 net), but try finding one of those nowadays. Even a modestly built 4.XL stroker will put out 240hp (net) with ease, and up close to 300 lb/ft of torque. A stock 2bbl 283 only put out 275 lb/ft at 2,400rpm.

Here's a good discussion on the comparison between a 4.XL stroker and any small block V8. Jeep Strokers • Stroker Horsepower & Torque Numbers VS. Small Block V8's
Problem with that link is, they are comparing flywheel HP/Torque figures from strokers with RWHP figures for Small Blocks. They claimed their figures were all from the flywheel, but that is false. I know some of those engines they are talking about, and they are wheel HP, not flywheel.

Look at the RWHP dyno sheet for a stroker 4.6 a few posts down on that link:
258 Torque
201 HP...and it doesn't get there until the engine's almost wound out.

Less power than one of the stock 305's listed in the thread.


And from the link:

Quote:
Note: There's no doubt nor argument here that SB Ford and Chevy V8's have huge aftermarket support and will be both cheaper and easier to get higher power from. 275-300hp is a few bolt ons away for most any small block V8. This thread is intended to show the value of a Stroker build versus swapping in a stock small block. It is not an argument over which has the most potential for high end power! The stroker gets very expensive very quickly.
I rest my case.
Do the math. If you do one of these strokers RIGHT, you will have over 3k in it, no if's and's or buts. And what will you have for 3k? 300 ft/lbs of torque, give or take.
A stock 96-2000 Chevy Truck/SUV Vortec 350 has 255hp/330 ft/lbs torque. And that's at the wheels.
How many of those does everyone think are out there in salvage yards? Get one with the fuel system and computer, cheap. Does anyone seriously think it would take over 3k to have one of these running in a CJ?
Slap it in, spank anyone's stroker.

I don't mean to seem like I'm raining on anyone's stroker parade....if you're in love with the 6 cylinder, then by all means build one. But just don't try to sell me on it with the "less money" angle....it just ain't so. It's a lot of money to basically get almost even with a 70's smog motor small block, and still won't be even with even a 302 Mustang engine of the late 80's or 90's.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 05:14 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Pacfanweb View Post
Why would he want a downgrade?

For the cost of the stroker and all it'll take to get it "right", he could rebuild the 283 if he's dead-set on that motor, and still come out ahead on the HP.

There's just no comparison....you have to work hard to get HP out of that 6 cylinder.....but take that V-8, slap some good heads on it, a mild cam and an intake, and you're rolling.

And even if you get 275hp out of the 6......he's obviously after more power. Most folks won't be satisfied with 275hp for long.....they will be at first, because it's better than stock....until their buddy with a stock 350 spanks their butt from a stop light, and he has less money in his entire conversion than you do in just your motor.
The reason I was asking about the 283 is a friend of mine's brother in law is upgrading to a Hemi and said he would sell me the 283 (Good running condition, about 30,000 miles since rebuild) for around $200. I not looking for any kind of street racer, don't need a 300 to 400 HP motor. I do 74 a mile round trip into Sarasota everyday for work down I-75, so that is why I'm going to dump the 4cyl and get something with decent milage and still has power to get me easily down the road. Thanks for the comments guys
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Unread 08-03-2010, 05:17 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by SlikRic View Post
The reason I was asking about the 283 is a friend of mine's brother in law is upgrading to a Hemi and said he would sell me the 283 (Good running condition, about 30,000 miles since rebuild) for around $200. I not looking for any kind of street racer, don't need a 300 to 400 HP motor. I do 74 a mile round trip into Sarasota everyday for work down I-75, so that is why I'm going to dump the 4cyl and get something with decent milage and still has power to get me easily down the road. Thanks for the comments guys
In what fashion was it rebuilt? Stock? Warmed over? Heads/cam/etc?

If it's a little better than stock (which is likely), that's all the more reason to go with the V-8, IMO.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 05:20 PM   #22
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$200.00 for a good running small block, the choice is simple, drop it in.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 05:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by sireland67 View Post
$200.00 for a good running small block, the choice is simple, drop it in.
That's what I'm talking about....in this case, he doesn't even need a bell housing adapter....he'd actually have to get another bell housing to put the 6 in there, unless his has two bolt patterns on it.

The SBC will bolt right up, just need engine mounts.....and he's going to need those for either engine he chooses.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 05:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Pacfanweb View Post
In what fashion was it rebuilt? Stock? Warmed over? Heads/cam/etc?

If it's a little better than stock (which is likely), that's all the more reason to go with the V-8, IMO.
Yea, it's got an oversized Cam and headers. He had an engine shop do the blosk and head, not sure exactly what they did yet but I know it hasn't been bored. I was leaning towards the 283 because of the price but just didn't know much about them. I did some research on them and all sounded well but Internet research is about 50% of my job so I know you have to read way to many pages to get to the actual truth. That's why I asked here

Edit: Pac, my 80 has the T-176 mounted behind an I6 so all I would have to do is swap that trans. I can go either way very easily!
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Unread 08-03-2010, 06:23 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sireland67 View Post
$200.00 for a good running small block, the choice is simple, drop it in.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 06:38 PM   #26
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Which ever swap you do.
Don't forget the cost of a few other things, radiator, motor mounts, exhaust, etc.
Do your homework. So you have the total cost of the project before starting.
Have some extra cash in the bank for stuff you did not plan for.
It is always better to have something that moves and still runs than a 1/2 finished project that needs funds.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 07:05 PM   #27
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Well to clarify the stoker was built by the kid who is selling it, his Dad did all the machine work. He say he has around $800 in it but will sell it for $400 firm. My only problem is, it was never put in the CJ, he ran out of money and sold the Jeep, now he is trying to recover some of the money. He has no way of firing it up, so I really have no way of what I'm getting in the engine. My thinking is going with the 283 but I'm sure the stroker will get better mileage but not sure if the offset in gas saved is worth it?
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Unread 08-03-2010, 07:58 PM   #28
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I see no reason the stroker will get better mileage, unless it's because it's a less powerful engine.

Neither is a paragon of fuel efficiency, but I don't think there'll be that much difference.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 08:19 PM   #29
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I would say throw in a fuel injected 4.0 out of a newer jeep and be done, 190 hp and 240 torque. yeah the sound of a v8 is nice and the high hp is nice too but for trail riding the last thing you want is a cammed up hot running small block. Its going to be easier and cheaper to find parts to interchange with the jeep and the straight six.
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Unread 08-03-2010, 10:56 PM   #30
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I still would go with the 283. Do you have to e-test it? That may play a roll in witch motor if you do.
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