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Unread 11-02-2011, 08:51 PM   #16
MoC
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Congrats!

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Unread 11-03-2011, 10:57 PM   #17
TrebleHook
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So it's been a long night...and I still need a ride to work in the morning.

The good news:

Tranny mount/skid plate are up. Ended up drilling out holes for the T176. Not real happy with it because it's so beat up and full of holes from previous installs -- but it's up and it's solid. Easy fix down the road.

Front shocks are mounted.

33s are on....and they look GREAT!

Driveshafts are in.

So....the bad news: Transmission.

I had to pull the top cover to install the transmission -- now that I know better, I probably could have just removed the stick...but I didn't. Bottom line: I cannot seem to get the cover on such that the shift forks line up right.

I've searched and I think I have an idea what's wrong - I don't think I have neutral lined up right. The shifter is in neutral (I think) but not sure I have the tranny in neutral....if someone had a picture of what neutral looks like, that would be awesome.

I'm exhausted. More tomorrow.

Cheers,
TrebleHook
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Unread 11-04-2011, 12:04 AM   #18
cdmiller2
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both sleeves should be centered on the hubs for neutral, not sure where the reverse idler goes though.
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Unread 11-04-2011, 04:00 AM   #19
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrebleHook View Post
....
So....the bad news: Transmission.

I had to pull the top cover to install the transmission -- now that I know better, I probably could have just removed the stick...but I didn't. Bottom line: I cannot seem to get the cover on such that the shift forks line up right.

I've searched and I think I have an idea what's wrong - I don't think I have neutral lined up right. The shifter is in neutral (I think) but not sure I have the tranny in neutral....if someone had a picture of what neutral looks like, that would be awesome.

I'm exhausted. More tomorrow.

Cheers,
TrebleHook
If I remember right. One of the tips to put the cover on was to have the tranny in 3rd gear. This moves the front fork back so it fits into the top.
Then you can slide the gate back into neutral and install the shifter.





Otherwise the fork is too wide to fit into the narrowed front opening.
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Unread 11-04-2011, 07:30 PM   #20
TrebleHook
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I am getting slayed out here. Need help!

I've tried everything to get the top plate back on correctly. Pulled the shifter - installed it in 3rd. I get REVERSE in neutral and other gears are AFU.

No matter what I do...this is not working.

Divorce it near.

HELP!!

TrebleHook
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Unread 11-04-2011, 09:05 PM   #21
TrebleHook
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Bad News....

Well it's worse case scenario.....

After at least 20 attempts with the shift forks I started working it through in my head. I guessed that MAYBE the reverse gear was installed backwards on the shaft such that the race (where the fork rests) is on the rear of the gear -- placing the gear under the main gear when in reverse.

The pics I can find all show the gear installed with the gear at the rear of the transmission and the race at the front.

Sure enough, the gear is on backwards. The result of the backwards install is that when in neutral - reverse is engaged...

Not happy. I need my Jeep and it looks like it's all coming apart again...

Grrrrr,
TrebleHook
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Unread 11-05-2011, 12:50 AM   #22
Coiz
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Wow that sucks but at least you found it. Now it is just more time and not really any more money to make it right. I hate doing things twice but it happens to the best of us.
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Unread 11-05-2011, 04:15 AM   #23
John Strenk
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It might mean a complete tear down of the tranny. The reverse gear is the first thing put in place. Fortunately, these are quite easy to pull apart, You don't have to pull the whole gear cluster apart. Just take it out. You will have to remove the bearings and the clutch shaft. Hopefully they will come out easily

Is the whole gear in backwards or just the slider?
t-177neutralposition.jpg   t-177-reverseandcountershaft.jpg   t-177insertinggearcluster.jpg   t-177insertingclutchshaftnotch.jpg  
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Unread 11-05-2011, 10:45 PM   #24
TrebleHook
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Today was a good Jeep day! She's up and running!!

Sorry no pics -- it was fast and furious all day long so the camera never made it out....

First, thank you John for the quick reply. The pics and advice helped to identify the issue (as did all of your posts that I found while searching my issues). The reverse idler "slider" was on backwards.

I was pretty freaked out that I was going to have to have it professionally redone, since I had never cracked a tranny before.

I had emailed the seller (RetiredSERE) last night and told him what I thought was the problem. All I can say is that not only did I get a call first thing this morning with an apology....he was insistant about driving over and helping to make things right. He even apologized to my wife for the hassle (unnecessary, but GREAT stuff for me!).

Well Dave is a GREAT dude. Even with a busy schedule he drove 45 minutes from his house and helped me pull the tranny and then he commenced to breaking it down and rebuilding it --- like a pro.

The snap ring on the front bearing is no B.S. We used teamwork and some really small screwdrivers to get it off -- I don't have snap ring pliers and it's not even a real snap ring! (I got it back on with some really BIG screwdrivers and patience). We (Dave) beat out the bearings by banging on the shaft with a mallet/wood while we each held a big screwdriver on the bearing. A number of good wacks and both front and rear bearing were off.

Pulled the main shaft (actually 2 shafts made up of 4th gear and the rest on the other shaft) and then pulled the reverse gear set and flipped the reverse gear slider 180 degrees.

Dave re-packed the needle bearings on all shaft and we placed the bottom gear set in (it needs to lay on the bottom of the case so you can get the main gear set on) and then the main gear set. Used our make-shift Arbor Tool (a perfect sized jack-handle from an old Honda I used to own) to reset the shafts and then it was a matter of re-seating the bearings and replacing the snap rings....

Dave had to leave at this point because of an appointment, but he left me good directions.

I used a piece of PVC to re-seat the bearings. Used Permatex 1-min gasket on the front retainer and then re-installed the top plate. After yesterday I am an expert....

Here is how you install a T-176 top plate:

1) Put the transmission in NEUTRAL. Remove the shifter by pushing down on the retainer cap and turning it counter clockwise. Push hard. Use something to help (screwdriver/wrench) if you must. Once it turns 1/4 turn it comes right out.

2) Unbolt the top plate and pull it out. Place the shifter rods in the top plate in 3rd gear. (See graphic in John Strenk's post above). Insure that the 1st/2nd gear fork (short/rear) and reverse fork (the long one) are seated together and overlapping.

3) Manually put your transmission in 3rd gear. The forward race/fork-seat? is pulled all the way rearward and the rear race/fork-seat? is in neutral (between the bronze synchros).

**At this point I recommend dry fitting the top cover and testing you shifter. If you're certain you can get the forks on correctly -- install your gasket or Permatex**

4) REPLACING THE TOPCOVER -- Look into the transmission and insure that the race on the reverse/slider gear (the one that slides on the shaft that is bottom left/driver's rear of the transmission) is aligned with the race on the 1st/2nd gear race on the main (top) shaft. The slider gear will be towards the rear of the transmission with the race towards the front of the transmission.

5) Gently lower the top plate such that the front and rear forks line up over their respective races. STOP. PEAK. MAKE SURE YOUR FRONT FORK IS ON THE FORWARD RACE. It is easiest if you rotate the top cover to the right/passenger side and then slide it down while rotating it left. AGAIN, STOP. PEAK. MAKE SURE YOUR REAR FORK IS ON THE REAR RACE. This will ensure that the reverse fork (long one) fits and can seat properly in the reverse gear race. When done correctly the top just plops down and all the screw holes line right up. (It only took me 20+ tries to master this!)

6) There are 2 self-seating bolts -- one at 10 o'clock and one at 5 o'clock. These go in first. Since you installed the top plate in 3rd...you need to shift the shifter and transmission into neutral in order to reinstall the shifter tab. Look down the shifter hole and use a big screwdriver to slide the center lug forward until all the gates align (it's ONE click -- see diagram in the post above). REFILL THE TRANNY FROM THROUGH THE SHIFTER IF YOU NEED TO and DON'T FORGET THE PLUG (like I did.) Once the transmission is in NEUTRAL, reinstall the shifter and retainer cap by pushing down and turning clockwise.

7) AT THIS POINT YOU'LL WANT TO TEST YOUR SHIFTER/TRANSMISSION BEFORE INSTALLING THE REST OF THE TOP PLATE BOLTS...and perhaps running the engine while going through the gears -- make sure the driveshafts are off or you're otherwise safe.

8) If all is well, button it up, and hope for the best!


Got mine all buttoned up and everything reinstalled (clutch linkage, driveshafts, skidplate, etc)...did it this time with the tranny and transfer case separate...which is SO MUCH EASIER!

IT RUNS DOWN THE ROAD STRAIGHT AND EASY. Not the smoothest transmission on Earth, but LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than the T-5 and certainly better geared for 33's. The OME lift is smooth as silk and there is no drivetrain vibration!!

I learned a TON and feel much more confident about all things JEEP. Big props to RetiredSERE -- anyone who provides their personal warranty and precious time with a used transmission is a CLASS ACT in my book!

I am convinced that with patience ($$) and the right tools, anybody can fix or rebuild anything.

Like I said, today was a good Jeep day. Tomorrow belongs to the wife and kids!

Cheers,
TrebleHook
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Unread 11-07-2011, 03:45 AM   #25
John Strenk
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Congratulations!!
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Unread 11-16-2011, 07:08 AM   #26
Redgper
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Class act warranty for sure.

I rebuilt a t-176 and is a nice tranny to learn on. I like the t-5 also.
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Unread 11-16-2011, 01:59 PM   #27
southshore30
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I have the T-176 and I believe the GL5 you filled it with is the wrong stuff. That will eat up the bronze synchros. It calls for GL4 gear lube. I use Red Line MT-90 its synthetic but GL4 rated
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