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Unread 06-16-2011, 12:49 PM   #1
Turtle71
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1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Opened up my T5 and found this...

Decided to take a look inside. Pulled the tailhousing off and roller bearings and other bits and pieces fell out.


Inside the tailhousing.


A piece of what appears to be the 5th gear shift fork was broken off. The third pic shows a damaged bearing in that area close to the case. Crappy pics I know.




Heres a pic of the inside. Not much damage I can see in here besides some teeth on the gear at the far right which is the rear of the case.


What is strange is, I was having trouble getting in 1st. Had not driven it fast enough to get up to 5th yet. Can anyone with experience with these tell me how bad it looks or what might be involved?

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Unread 06-16-2011, 01:21 PM   #2
JeepHammer
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Bearing and 'Rebuild' kit, not horribly expensive.
Cluster shaft bearing gave up. Not usual.

Check NOVAK web site,
Link: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t4_t5.htm

T-5 is so weak I would consider replacing it, since it's just going to do this again...
Check the link posted for recommendations.

---------------------

I don't know if it's the angle of the camera, flash or what,
But some of your gears look like they have been overheated in the pictures.
(Could be my monitor too)

This thing ever been ran low on lubricant?
Towed something REALLY HEAVY?
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Unread 06-16-2011, 01:44 PM   #3
SleeperCJ
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Agree with hammer on looking for something stronger.
I blew 3rd gear up in the first t5 I had and I had a friend who did the some thing. Both times it was just driving down the street Luckily I had a buddy with a pair of t5s sitting in his yard and he gave me one.
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Unread 06-16-2011, 01:53 PM   #4
alljagged24
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Not trying to highjack, but why does everyone say they are so weak, I mudbogg with 37 in tires all the time with my t5, and they come from the factory behind v8's..............is it just the fact that I'm a truck driver and very experienced with high torque. Heavy loads with a manual tranny ........weak compared to what?
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Unread 06-16-2011, 02:30 PM   #5
gojeepin
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Many of the Jeeps with T5s also had 2.73s in the axles. That's quite a load if you increase your tire size. With proper gearing and tire size the T5 will do fine in most cases.
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Unread 06-16-2011, 03:41 PM   #6
Turtle71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer
Bearing and 'Rebuild' kit, not horribly expensive.
Cluster shaft bearing gave up. Not usual.

Check NOVAK web site,
Link: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t4_t5.htm

T-5 is so weak I would consider replacing it, since it's just going to do this again...
Check the link posted for recommendations.

---------------------

I don't know if it's the angle of the camera, flash or what,
But some of your gears look like they have been overheated in the pictures.
(Could be my monitor too)

This thing ever been ran low on lubricant?
Towed something REALLY HEAVY?
I wonder how difficult it would be to replace the broken stuff? Will have to consult the FSM to see if I can handle it. Not sure about the history since I just got it 6 months ago. Been going through it slowly but surely.
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Unread 06-16-2011, 03:47 PM   #7
RobsCrawlin7
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when did the t5 come behind a v8? im not trying to be a smart ***, i honestly just have never heard of that
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Unread 06-16-2011, 04:21 PM   #8
hp_lovecraft
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The T-5 was used in V8 Mustangs for most of the 90s, and still used on the 200hp V6 Mustangs

But there was no single T-5. With Ford, the I4, V6, and V8 engines all had different T-5s. The T-5s would have different gearing, different strength gears, different input shaft sizes, etc.

The T-5s that AMC used were on the weak side, but if you drive carefully, and use proper gearing, should still be fine.
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Unread 06-16-2011, 04:25 PM   #9
Turtle71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojeepin View Post
Many of the Jeeps with T5s also had 2.73s in the axles. That's quite a load if you increase your tire size. With proper gearing and tire size the T5 will do fine in most cases.
My CJ is one of those unfortunately. I plan on going with 32's soon. Regearing is definitley on the to do list.
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Unread 06-16-2011, 05:42 PM   #10
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRyans33 View Post
when did the t5 come behind a v8? im not trying to be a smart ***, i honestly just have never heard of that
It NEVER came behind a V-8, it's been swapped in.

It's an all aluminum case, VERY LIGHT, small passenger car transmission that was adapted to the 4 cylinder Jeeps.
I've NEVER seen one from the factory behind anything but a 4 cylinder and some I-6 engines.

You actually had to order the over drive (5 speed) to get one behind an I-6 engine.

According to Novak, the super light weight aluminum case flexes too much and shifts around, killing the bearing alignment...

Good idea HORRIBLY executed...
Light weight 5 speed in a Jeep, Good Idea,
Transmission that bolts directly to the transfer case, Good Idea,
Transmission case that deflects under load, misaligning the shafts/gears... REALLY BAD IDEA!
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Unread 06-16-2011, 05:45 PM   #11
jeepwhore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alljagged24 View Post
Not trying to highjack, but why does everyone say they are so weak, I mudbogg with 37 in tires all the time with my t5, and they come from the factory behind v8's..............is it just the fact that I'm a truck driver and very experienced with high torque. Heavy loads with a manual tranny ........weak compared to what?
Not in a Jeep it didn't. The T5 was first put in a CJ in '82 and the last year of the 304 was '81.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hp_lovecraft View Post
The T-5 was used in V8 Mustangs for most of the 90s, and still used on the 200hp V6 Mustangs

But there was no single T-5. With Ford, the I4, V6, and V8 engines all had different T-5s. The T-5s would have different gearing, different strength gears, different input shaft sizes, etc.

The T-5s that AMC used were on the weak side, but if you drive carefully, and use proper gearing, should still be fine.
Comparing:
1) a HO 5L V8 spinning 20" street tires on a rwd car on pavement to,
2) a 4wd Jeep with 35" tires in unforgiving off road conditions where instantaneous loading of the drivetrain can happen because of changes in traction....

is about as far as you can get from comparing apples to apples. As you said, the ford T5's are different from the AMC version anyway so there is no comparison to be made.
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Unread 06-16-2011, 07:46 PM   #12
Turtle71
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To get this thread somewhat back on track. If I decide to get a different trans, what would be the best and easiest to swap in?

If I decide to repair, how difficult of a repair does this look to be? Also, does the tailhousing look like it can be reused? See the damage in this pic.
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Unread 06-16-2011, 08:22 PM   #13
JeepHammer
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Depends on the hard parts of the cluster where the bearings failed.

If there is a lot of hard part damage, then you will spend more on replacements that the transmission is worth.
High quality replacment parts are EXPENSIVE.
And you haven't dug into the transmission completely yet, you don't know what else is hiding in there,

Tail shaft replacment shouldn't be terribly hard to find since so may of us pull these out and throw them on the 'Trade or Scrap' pile.

T5's aren't on any body's wish list...

--------------------

As for stronger replacment, there are Droves of them out there.
Probably a LOT less expensive than repairing/replacing much in the T5 you have.

I would look for a WORKING T5 if you were going to go back with a T5.
Find one that lived it's life behind a 4 cylinder, with stock rims and didn't get the crap wheeled out of it.

Common transfer case, so that's not an issue.

I would spend $200-$300 on a different (Stronger) transmission rather than start that that T5 again.
Even if you have to repair it (Should be cheaper if it needs repairs), it's still going to be a better transmission all the way around...
More common parts, companies that make good parts for them, ect.
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Unread 06-16-2011, 08:41 PM   #14
BagusJeep
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The amount of steel shavings at the bottom of the case are a good indication of how much has been worn off it. Those teeth also do not look so good. You could repair it and buy new bits and put it all back together but you have it out already and it is not the strongest box. Up to you, it would be easier to rebuild it and you could do that quickly and have the jeep back on the road.

Plenty of choice of Jeep boxes out there which will fit apart from a T5 or you can go for something a bit stronger and spend a bit more. Jeephammer gave the Novak website address, very informative on relative strengths and applications. If you went standard Jeep you could get all the parts you need from a scrapped one at relatively little cost and there is plenty of debate on here as to which are the good ones.

For instance the T176 is a medium duty 4 speed fitted to your year behind the I6 and would be long lived and easy to fit. I have one on an 84 and it is fine, shifts well and is reliable.

I would not personally bother with a 5 speed box unless I had an application for it, the 4 speed is plenty for most uses as the 258 is quite flexible but then I do not have a highway here where we can get up to high speeds for long distances.
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Unread 06-17-2011, 03:10 AM   #15
RobsCrawlin7
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i did an np435/d300 swap. it is super easy and would be easier for you since you already have some of the stuff. i had to buy a d300 and driveshafts, your driveshafts and d300 will work fine. you will need the adapter from novak, rebuild kit, and thats all. it bolts up to your bellhousing. not sure if you can reuse your clutch and pressure plate but if you have the 258 im pretty sure you can. i did but i had a 258/t150/d20 combo. i still say to this day that was the single best mod ive done to my Jeep
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