One piece axle questions

[bluesman423]

I have questions about used one piece axles.

#1 These used one piece axles only have the inner race and rollers, no outer race for the bearings. Can anybody tell me what outer race should be used?

#2 It appears as if a race from two piece axles will work. Will they?

#3 Anyway to tell what kind/manufacture these axles are?

Thanks if you can help.

[deadeye]

If it were me I would press some new bearings on. Now is better than having to tear into it again in a month or two.
Must one piece axles do not have the manf. name on them that I know of.

[80cj]

The inner race with rollers and outer race come as a unit. I really don't think you'd be able to purchase the outer race separately. The bearing used in most one piece axles is the Timken set 9. The bearing retainer ring is a special width. Your best bet would be to purchase a bearing and seal kit from the axle manufacturer.

As far as identifying the axle manufacturer, Moser Engineering has an ME on the outside of the axle flange.

[jwhite_00]

Actually, the one-piece axle bearing kits are interchangeable. I think all of them use the Timken set 9 roller bearing set with a cut-down retaining ring. One did use ball bearings (do a search as it was covered a few months ago) but will also accept rollers.

If they are Superior Axles, do NOT try and deal with them. Find a STOCKING dealer that stocks the bearings sets that you need. Superior makes a good product but it took those b#stards 4 months to drop ship a set of bearings that were ordered through a non-stocking dealer that Superior themselves had recommended. I cancelled the order after six weeks and am now getting the run-around from the dealer. (The person I cancelled the order through no longer works there are there aren't any notes. Go figure.) Good prices, great people to talk to but zero help. I can't recommend them.

Krage, 4WD and Quadratec can all help you out.

[bluesman423]

Well, now I am confused.

I tracked down the outer races that were used with these one piece axles and they are definitely separate.

One outer race is a Bower A9 with the other being a Timken U261L, not sure about the Timken number.

Can someone enlighten me and clear the confusion? These outer races were still in the AMC 20 that the one piece axles came out of.

[80cj]

Originally Posted by bluesman423

Well, now I am confused.

I tracked down the outer races that were used with these one piece axles and they are definitely separate.

One outer race is a Bower A9 with the other being a Timken U261L, not sure about the Timken number.

Can someone enlighten me and clear the confusion? These outer races were still in the AMC 20 that the one piece axles came out of.

Perhaps I was wrong but I was assuming that since the inner race, bearing rollers, out race and rib ring come as a unit, the outer race would probably not be available separately. Does the outer race come with the rib ring as shown in the attached pic? It's what keeps the axle in the housing when the bearing is installed. Normal practice when replacing bearings is to replace roller bearing and race together. Not mixing an old bearing with a new race thus allowing both bearing and race to wear together.

[jwhite_00]

The outer race is Timken U261L. The inner is Timken U298. That ring does keep the set9 together. Mine were separate when I pulled them but I replaced the whole set. I never looked at the numbers on the old bearings.
Axles held in place by outer seal pressing against the outer race. Backwards from the way the two-piece axles go in? I don't remember.

[CajunCJ]

I can only speak for the superior one piece axles, thats what I put in. I destroyed one of the bearings trying to seat it with a cheap harbor freight press. I went to the local bearing supply house and ordered two bearings for a regular stock shaft and it fit perfectly.I believe that all one piece axle shafts would have to be the same size as factory shafts in order to slide into the pumpkin and spider gears( just guessing). The ordered bearings come with the outter race as a complete set from Timken. Cost about $20 per bearing. Took it to pepboys and had them pressed on the shaft.

[jwhite_00]

If you are using the bearings from a stock two-piece axle then I hope you aren't driving it on the road. It is an accident looking for a place to happen. Check this thread. Rear Wheel Bearing Question Scroll down to yellow85cj's post. See that collar on the shaft behind the what's left of the inner bearing? That keeps the shaft and everything attached from slipping out through the center of the bearing. If your bearing starts to get a little warm, it will expand enough to lose it's tension on the shaft. What do you suppose will happen then?

One-piece axle shafts can't have that machined collar on the shaft or you wouldn't be able to slide the bearing on, so the proper bearing kits supply an additional pressed on retaining collar with a much tighter interference fit than the bearing itself to keep it all in place.
In addition, the set9 bearing has the two parts of the bearing locked together (see 8ocj's pic above) and there is no need for any end-play adjustment. The bearings from the two-piece axle require this end-play adjustment and use shims behind the driver's side backing plate to accomplish it.

Honestly, you really need to put your axles together the right way using the right parts.

[CajunCJ]

What made you think I didn't install the bearing retainer ring?
All I was saying is that the bearing that comes with the one piece kit is the same size as the stock bearing (according to the bearing supply house I got it from)
The bearing they gave me which they said is the same as stock I compared to the one bearing I had left that came with the kit and they looked identical to me.

Superior Axle Installation

[CajunCJ]

The full story is after I damaged one of the bearings that came with the kit I took the other bearing and tried to order it from Timken online from their website. The numbers on the bearing didn't match up with any numbers on the Timken site. I brought the bearing to the bearing supply house to see if they could find it. They couldn't match up the numbers either. After about 20 minutes of them searching through the computers and books and measuring the bearing I had they said it was the same size as the bearing that was on the original stock shaft.

[80cj]

Be careful when subsituting bearings. Bearings for one piece after market axle shafts are Timken Set 9 bearings (or equivalent) and are different from bearings used with stock (2 piece) shafts. Further, the bearing retainer ring used with after market 1 piece shafts are a special width. That is the reason for my suggestion that a replacement bearing and seal kit be ordered from the 1 piece axle manufacturer, so that you will get the correct bearing, retainer ring and seals. This is a safety concern so be careful.

[jwhite_00]

The set5 and set9 bearings are the same bore size and overall diameter. The seals are the same, therefore the shafts are machined to the same diameters.
BUT, the width of the bearing cones and cups differ. The bearing cup of the set9 bearing, that 80cj was kind enough to post a picture of, is 125 thou wider that the cup specified for the two-piece axles. I mic'ed both the Set9 (with the U261L outer cup) and a Set5 (with the LM48510 outer).

The inner ends of two-piece axles touch a thrust block inside the differential. A dial indicator is then used to determine how much shim is required behind the driver's side backing plate to give the proper amount of end-play.
The thrust block is removed on a one-piece installation if the axles should be long enough to contact it, most are too short to touch the block. The set9 unit bearing requires no end-play adjustment. You just install the spacer in the housing end and the outer race gets clamped between the spacer and the backing plate. That is why they require 0.020 - 0.060 of bearing protrusion.
If you install one-piece axles that don't touch the thrust block than you have no way to limit the end-play and will ruin the bearings pretty quickly.
I suspect your bearing supplier only looked up the bore and exterior diameters.

It's your vehicle, do as you wish. I'm done with this.

Incidentally, the Set9 is also specified on the 1984-1989 Wrangler Dana 35 one-piece axles.

[80cj]

Originally Posted by jwhite_00

The set5 and set9 bearings are the same bore size and overall diameter. The seals are the same, therefore the shafts are machined to the same diameters.
BUT, the width of the bearing cones and cups differ. The bearing cup of the set9 bearing, that 80cj was kind enough to post a picture of, is 125 thou wider that the cup specified for the two-piece axles. I mic'ed both the Set9 (with the U261L outer cup) and a Set5 (with the LM48510 outer).

The inner ends of two-piece axles touch a thrust block inside the differential. A dial indicator is then used to determine how much shim is required behind the driver's side backing plate to give the proper amount of end-play.
The thrust block is removed on a one-piece installation if the axles should be long enough to contact it, most are too short to touch the block. The set9 unit bearing requires no end-play adjustment. You just install the spacer in the housing end and the outer race gets clamped between the spacer and the backing plate. That is why they require 0.020 - 0.060 of bearing protrusion.
If you install one-piece axles that don't touch the thrust block than you have no way to limit the end-play and will ruin the bearings pretty quickly.
I suspect your bearing supplier only looked up the bore and exterior diameters.

It's your vehicle, do as you wish. I'm done with this.

Incidentally, the Set9 is also specified on the 1984-1989 Wrangler Dana 35 one-piece axles.

X2 exactly. A note on setting endplay on stock axles. If you happen to have a tire on the opposite axle, be sure it is off the ground when setting endplay.

[CajunCJ]

So basically the bearing supply house that I got the new bearing from bent me over and put it to me,when they said the stock bearings were the same size as the one I brought in to them. Everything is still on pipe jacks at the moment doing my frame off. Guess it's better to find out now than on a trail or hwy.I thought I was good everything went together well, was in tolerances and it rolled smooth with no drag to it.