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Unread 05-29-2007, 10:27 AM   #1
burtonsnowman
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The old "How should I build it?" thread again...

My CJ is going to be my winter project. I've got a Star-Jones-butt-load of questions for y'all. I'll post as they come to me.
(Yes, I used the search function...so don't send me there. I've searched my little heart out.)

#1) I am considering a coil-sprung setup. Any good build links or advice of how to do this?
#2) Axles: I know everyone has different opinions about this, but what would you guys recommend if I'm using a 360 or 401 (or maybe a SBC) with 35"-40" tires?
#3) Roll cage: I've searched and searched...what is the best solution for me if I want a family-style (full cage) that retains the four-person seatability I have now? Do they exist?
#4) Frame: Do I need to reinforce that mother? It's rust-free, but is it strong enough in stock form?

(More questions to come...)


Thanks!
- Tyler

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- Red '84 CJ-7 - I'll build it someday! I have the parts, but no shop and no time! :(
- Black '78 J-10 - rollin' on 37s and SOA with front/rear Detroits, high-steer, etc.
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Unread 05-29-2007, 10:36 AM   #2
John Brereton
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Frame should be fine. Having a roll cage custom built and tied into the frame would be your best option. Also have the seats mounted to the frame as part of the desing.

For 40" tires I'd go with Dana 60s or 14 bolt set up. Whether or not you will need to narrow them will depend on the laws in your state.

Coil springs would be a total custom set up of course. The Pirate board would be your best bet for information. If you Google it, that's probably where you'll be sent. Why not keep it simpler and go with a sprung over set up?
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What's left of a '79 CJ5
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Unread 05-29-2007, 10:42 AM   #3
burtonsnowman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brereton
Coil springs would be a total custom set up of course. The Pirate board would be your best bet for information. If you Google it, that's probably where you'll be sent. Why not keep it simpler and go with a sprung over set up?
Well, that is my other option. But I run the risk of getting flamed for the rest of my life. Plus, the horror stories are boundless. I'm kind of freaked out to do it, for fear I will run ito all kinds of problems (and I don't want to get cyber-tarred and feathered ).

Any other input on the coil vs. SOA issue?
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- Red '84 CJ-7 - I'll build it someday! I have the parts, but no shop and no time! :(
- Black '78 J-10 - rollin' on 37s and SOA with front/rear Detroits, high-steer, etc.
- Green '93 ZJ - Crusty old PARTS-GIVER TO THE CJ!
"Six in a row makes it go"
...and a driveway full of Subarus...
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Unread 05-29-2007, 10:43 AM   #4
Indy
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IF you've searched, you've seen all the answers. 2+2 always equals 4 no matter how many people ask. What new info specifically are you looking for?
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Unread 05-29-2007, 12:22 PM   #5
burtonsnowman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy
IF you've searched, you've seen all the answers. 2+2 always equals 4 no matter how many people ask. What new info specifically are you looking for?
Well, I just can't get the answers searching. The search is always too broad or too narrow for me. I never get what I want. So I started a thread.

Any help?
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- Red '84 CJ-7 - I'll build it someday! I have the parts, but no shop and no time! :(
- Black '78 J-10 - rollin' on 37s and SOA with front/rear Detroits, high-steer, etc.
- Green '93 ZJ - Crusty old PARTS-GIVER TO THE CJ!
"Six in a row makes it go"
...and a driveway full of Subarus...
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Unread 05-29-2007, 12:57 PM   #6
only in a jeep cj
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Heres just some ideas to cut out a lot of headaches...but it cost..
Throttle Down Kustoms CJ frame with TJ style coil mounts (galvanized as an option)
Rubicon Dana 44 axles to get lockers and straight bolt in.
4 inch coil lift
35s of your choice
and I'd give up the 360 to have a MPFI 4.0 or add a Howell FI kit to the 360 or 401.
Use a late YJ cage and add to it OR a poison spyder cage
Then I would add Poison Spyder crusher corners and sliders and tube fenders w/3 inch tube flair. All the rest would be CJ (hood/grill/dash/tailgate)
I personally like the CJ cage better as a triangle is harder to fold flat than a box....meaning 3 pivot points vs 4.
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Unread 05-29-2007, 01:58 PM   #7
John Brereton
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I've seen YJ bars crush too easily. You can get a good cage built for a fair price.
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What's left of a '79 CJ5
3 - 4" total lift
4.88 gears in a Dana 30 and off center ff Dana 44 with disc brakes
258 with TFI /T18 /D18 drive train with Saturn O.D.
33 x 12 DC Mud Country Radials
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Unread 05-29-2007, 02:30 PM   #8
Mr.Crowley
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what I would do..
1..research the heck outa coils Vrs. soa..I would most likely go soa cuz theres alot of info out there and people have been doing it correctly for quite a while
2.what ever you can afford.
3 custom cage..tied into the frame at all points and possibly twp legs through the fire wall out to the front of the frame
4.go over the frame with a fine tooth comb..get it blasted and go over all the welds..tying in the cage to the frame makes it very ridged..
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Unread 05-29-2007, 04:14 PM   #9
BESRK
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Since there's really no low budget way to accomplish this let me help you spend your money.. I'd go coilovers. Compact, infinately adjustable, ride well (if setup properly) and super bling factor. Do a dual triangulated 4 link out back and either a single triangulated 4 link or a 3 link/panhard up front. This lets you adjust your wheelbase wherever you want it. Run a couple of Dana 60s with alloy shafts and 4 wheel disks. 1350 or 1410 driveshafts with at least 3/16" wall thickness (I fold up .120" wall like their drinking straws). Big rubber needs hydro assist. Avoid full hydro for a street driven rig. Invest in a bender/die and bend the cage up yourself. It'll just about pay for itself in that one project alone. Do a friend's rig and you'll be making money off it already.

Now, once you get all that stuff done, buy a trailer and haul it around. Driving a 40" tired Jeep on the street is a PITA.. trust me.
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Unread 05-29-2007, 05:01 PM   #10
bdmonist
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More cage options than you could ever dream of
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f37/official-cage-idea-pic-discussion-thread-128237/
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Unread 05-29-2007, 11:36 PM   #11
jeepskate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burtonsnowman
#1) I am considering a coil-sprung setup. Any good build links or advice of how to do this?
If you're scared to tackle an SOA, then you don't need to be messing around with a coil setup...way more potential to screw up. That said, there *are* kits on the market to take alot of the heavy lifting out of the equation, but you'll drop $3-4k to get setup. Searching Pirate (do *not* ask over there...you will get flamed and flamed crispily for 'newbie' questions) for info on custom setups and getting your hands on a link calculator would be the way to go for gathering info on rolling your own. The TDK frame with TJ suspension setup is also a viable option, though I wouldn't waste the time, energy & money on Rubi Dana 44's.

Quote:
#2) Axles: I know everyone has different opinions about this, but what would you guys recommend if I'm using a 360 or 401 (or maybe a SBC) with 35"-40" tires?
Well, that's an awfully wide swath. What I would do/recommend for 35's is radically different than for 40's. You need to make a decision here, and alot of it is going to have to do with intended use and how much dough you have to blow.

Quote:
#3) Roll cage: I've searched and searched...what is the best solution for me if I want a family-style (full cage) that retains the four-person seatability I have now? Do they exist?
There are cage kits of various levels avaialble from several vendors. You could start with a YJ rollbar (just the main part, not the goofy front extensions), add on a basic front cage kit, tie it into the frame, then add some additional tubing for better triangulation and to tie the seats into it.

Quote:
#4) Frame: Do I need to reinforce that mother? It's rust-free, but is it strong enough in stock form?
Depends on your intended usage. If you're going to be playing hard, I'd reinforce it. Of course factoring in this and the thoughts of going coil, the stronger TDK frame setup for TJ suspension becomes a more viable and cost-effective option.

Quote:
(More questions to come...)


Thanks!
- Tyler
I think you probably need to come up with some more answers to decisions you need to make first
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'83 Scrambler: time & money pit under construction with parts from CJ's,YJ's,TJ's,FSJ's,GM,Ford,IH,Honda,Toyota and a whole lotta aftermarket & custom stuff.
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Unread 05-30-2007, 02:40 AM   #12
jeepmor
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I'd go SOA and use the M.O.R.E. traction bar and use Toyota 4runner OME (Old Man Emu) front springs with YJ shackles and hangers with a M.O.R.E. shackle reversal kit.. I say the toyota OME springs because the 4runners came with SOA setup stock, so they'll be a bit stiffer. The traction bar will take care of a rear pinon wrap issue. I haven't had much of a problem with wheel hop on the front end of my CJ. I have all this minus the traction bar now, but I need it.

As for axles, D60s for that big rubber you are after.

As for cage, custom is the way to go and you'll be dollars ahead on a bender that way as Besrk stated. I like the poison spyder setup, but the shop I use occasionally voted against it because that's a lot of metal up high as the owner put it. You don't want to raise that center of gravity too much, that's just silly in a jeep.

Frame probably fine unless you have cracks in it. I'd recommend M.O.R.E. again for their frame plates to keep the budget lower and keep from purchasing an entirely new frame. I suggest a new tranny cross member that can slide over the rocks instead of that rock snagging stock stuff too. You'll want something stiffer to attach that torsion bar too anyway in my opinion.
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Unread 05-30-2007, 10:23 AM   #13
burtonsnowman
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I'm thinking SOA is how I will roll. I don't have the experience/skills to take on a four-link project.

For the tires, I was thinking 37" Iroks, so from now on, let's assume this project is based on a pepped-up 401 and 37" ires.


I've heard you can get Toyota axles to nearly D60-level strength. Is this true, and if so, is it a viable option?
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- Red '84 CJ-7 - I'll build it someday! I have the parts, but no shop and no time! :(
- Black '78 J-10 - rollin' on 37s and SOA with front/rear Detroits, high-steer, etc.
- Green '93 ZJ - Crusty old PARTS-GIVER TO THE CJ!
"Six in a row makes it go"
...and a driveway full of Subarus...
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Unread 05-30-2007, 10:55 PM   #14
dirtbagofva
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Since you are leaning toward coils and want a cage to protect 4 and a mountain motor.

Build frame up. I saw an article where a guy did just that. If that looks too time consuming and difficult, start with a TJ or go SOA.
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Unread 05-30-2007, 11:01 PM   #15
jeepskate
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37's are a 'cusp' tire size...right on the top edge for Dana 44's and bottom edge for Dana 60's & 14-bolts. With the V8, I'd probably opt for a 60/60 or 60/14 combo. Can't really advise you on the Toy axles...not a real common swap and they have their own issues. The key is to research the costs of the upgrades. Alot of the time upgrading a lesser axle to the strength of a bigger axle costs more than just buying the bigger axle. It's one thing if you already have, say, a Dana 44 with all the trimmings running 36's and then upsize to 38's and spend the coin for alloy shafts and hi-zoot u-joints, it's a whole nother thing to have nothing with the intention of running 38's and go out and buy a Dana 44, then proceed to buy gears, locker, hi-steer, alloys, etc to get it up to Dana 60 strength...just buy the Dana 60, it'll be cheaper and still have the headroom to be made even stronger if need be. Kinda like the guys with the 'Fast & Furious' cars who drop big money on performance parts so they can beat a Mustang when they could've just bought the Mustang and still have the headroom to make it even faster with the same types of parts.
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'83 Scrambler: time & money pit under construction with parts from CJ's,YJ's,TJ's,FSJ's,GM,Ford,IH,Honda,Toyota and a whole lotta aftermarket & custom stuff.
http://www.jeepskate.net
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