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Unread 01-11-2010, 11:30 PM   #1
Elkhound
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OK I need dana 44 help!!!!!

Ok I have posted various questions on here and have finally found my axle combo. I have a 85 cj it has a pro comp 5-6" lift I am staying spring under in the rear. I have gotten a matching scout front and rear and I am going to use the rear but have recently found a wagoneer front already set up with histeer and spring over so I'm thinking of a yj stock spring spring over in the front. The axles are not matching gears and the scout axles have 3:55 gears not my choice I would like to go to a 4:10. I have 2 offset cj5 dana 44 axles with stock 5:13 gears I know these axles are weaker than the scout axles. My question is could I use the gear sets and carriers for the scout and wagoneer axles? If not the carriers then what about just the ring gears? It seems like I have stumbled on threads about this while researching on what axles I wanted to buy and they said that the spline counts in a cj d44 are 19 v.s. chevy's ?spline count?? But I have not been able to find them right now? I still have a 258 but I run 35" 12.5 swampers and will be getting boggers the next set of tires I get this is the reason I am upgrading to the 44's. I have fairly good mechanical skills and will be doing all the work on the jeep myself, but I will have a mechanic set up the gears if I am able to use the gears I have laying around. My second question is along the same line if I decide to get the wagoneer axle which already has 4:10 gears is set up for 5 on 5.5 and has hysteer arms. Would I be able to use a standard gear set out of a chevy frontend to replace the gears in my rearend? I am on a strict budget but I think I have set aside enough money to do this conversion and gears but If I save a little money on my gears I would be able to get some tube fenders and a body lift. As always the more bang I can get get for my buck is what I am looking for. Thanks in advance for any help.

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Unread 01-12-2010, 07:22 AM   #2
Nickmil
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Stock offset rear 44's from CJ's would be 5.38's, 4.27's, 3.73's, or 4.88's. Not 5.13's. Those never came stock in anything Jeep.

As long as the gear sets are for low pinion 44's they can be used in other low pinion 44's. The only exception to that is the aluminum 44's used in WJ's or ZJ's, I forget which had that diff.
The diff case that the ring gear bolts to is different depending on gear ratio and spline count of the axles. You can't put 30 spline axles into a diff case with 19 spline side gears and you can't put in 30 spline side gears as they won't fit. This is talking about an open case.

You can take the ring gear off and put it on another 44 diff case though.
Be aware there are gear splits or "series" of cases depending on gear ratio. On a 44 it's 2.54 down to 3.73 gears fit one case and 3.92 down to 5.38 fit another case.

Also be aware that many older drive pinion gears use a coarse splined yoke vs. the newer ones that use a fine spline yoke. You just have to use the yoke to match the splines of the drive pinion gear you are using.
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Unread 01-12-2010, 11:03 AM   #3
Elkhound
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yeah I haven't opened the diff on the offset 44's it was just what the guy I bought my other cj5 from. I have decided to definatly go with the wagoneer front and I will swap gears out of one of the chevy frontends I have laying around. I will still need some help with the steering the waggy axle has highsteer already so that is alot of extra work I won't have to do. So I was wondering if the gears even though they are from a frontend will work in the rear? From erything I have read it sounds like it will work. The scout rear has a factory limited slip but it sounds like my carrier is 2.54 to 3.73 so would the limited slip be able to go in the 4.10 chevy front carrier I alreay have? The front also has a limited slip would that be able to be installed with my wagoneer front axle too? I know that most parts are interchangable but I have very limited knowlege on axles. I have replaced bearings and axles but never done a total re-gear and rebuild so I will probibly have this done by a mechanic but I want to have my ducks in a row so I can avoid hidden costs and problems. thanks for the info so far. Hope to hear more of your guys wisdom on this subject. I have been researching this swap for awile and am no afraid to read so links to aritcles would be of great assistance. I have used the search and can't find the exact answers I am looking for. well thanks again
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Unread 01-12-2010, 11:32 AM   #4
CSP
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Holy lots of questions.

As said, any LP (low pinion) Dana 44 gearset will work in any LP housing. Chevy/Waggie/Scout are all low pinion.

Carriers whether open, limited slip, or full locker are interchangable as well. A limited slip is already a carrier, so no the Scout LS will not fit in the chevy carrier.

Not sure what help you need with the steering. You might want to start a different thread on that and ask specific questions and limit them. Seeing as many questions as you've asked in this thread makes it difficult to keep track of what you're doing and answer correctly. Be ready to spend quite a bit of money to setup the SOA front end correctly. Steering parts, done correctly, aren't cheap.
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Unread 01-12-2010, 03:49 PM   #5
Elkhound
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Thanks again for the help. I have found the above mentioned wagoneer frontend already set up with highsteer and spring over the guy wants 500. According to my research I think this is a good price. Considering all the machining (for steering arms), parts swaping to get back to 5.5 (which has already been done scince it was in a cj), and this axle is already set up spring over. I am thinking of doing a invertted T steering set up, for the steering it seems to be more of a simple set up (which I could be totaly misguided on?). I have a friend who set one up simular to this and turned out fairly nice. I will be making a seperate post for this though. But the info you have given me has been a great help I am still up in the air as to weather I am going to stick with the 3.54 gears and the limited slip or to go with the 4.10's. I am thiking I would like to have the advantage of the limited slip for wheeling. The 3.54's are the same as what is in the jeep now and with the 35's I am running, it is ok on the highway and good in the mud. I mainly wheel in the mud and I am not too sure if the 4.10's will help me much. I do know that my jeep has a limited slip rear and a welded front and it is night and day from the stock open carrier jeep that I had before this one. I agonized over weather or not to weld the front that is in my cj now and I am actually very glad I did. I know it will add stress to bearings, and axles. There is also tire wear problems but for the type of wheeling I do with the jeep v.s. how little I drive it on the road I think the welded fronend was a good choice. Partly because I did not care about what happened to my stock 30 because I was going to do this 44 swap. The main reason I did it was I was out wheeled by my buddy in his toyota, and I could not let such a thing happen. the only difference was he had a locker in the front so I went home and welded it up that night. I have been able to go everywhere he goes every since. Anyway back to my question about gears. Since I can not do both (use the limited slip with my 4.10 gears) what do you guys think I should do? Should I go with the lower gears or the limited slip?????????? I am leaning toward the limited slip because Of the added traction. I am a firm beliver in wheel speed and don't really see a need for gearing a 6 cyl. like you would a 4cyl.. I know there are guys out there who disagree. I would like to know what you guys would do. Would you go for the lower gears or limited slip? I'm running 35x12.5 swampers, 258 bored .30 over, lowend torque cam, a Weber carb, T176 4speed (couldn't use 5th in my t5 and had a t176 sitting around). I thought about the fact that with the 4.10's I might be able to use 5th but I want to stick with the t176 for strength. So I will keep the 4speed.
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Unread 01-12-2010, 05:18 PM   #6
foggybottombob
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To use 5th effectively with 35's you would need 4.56 or 4.88 gears. But since you are not rock crawling and think 3.55's are OK now then just stay with that. As far as a limited slip goes, it depends on what limited slip you are talking about. If it is a trac-lok then I would not put it in my Jeep. The Dana 44 trac-loks have a reputation of being easy to break and having clutch packs that wear out fast. It sounds like you are one of those spin the tires fast and sling mud everywhere guys. That kind of activity would be even worse wear on a limited slip for cases where one side caught suddenly.

Maybe you would be happy with a truetrack limited slip. Those are gear driven. The standard steering setup on a waggy axle is inverted T. You can pick up a junk yard tie rod and drag link from a waggy and probably make that work. You might have to make an adjuster for the drag link since it might be too long stock.
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Unread 01-12-2010, 06:32 PM   #7
Elkhound
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yeah One reason I was thinking inverted t is its a famillar stock style set up I think I can make everything needed fairly easily.
I am not afraid of the skinny pedal but I still have a 6cyl. wich is not a high reving motor. So I am still carefull how I use it. The reason I mentioned wheel speed Is I am not rock crawling I can definatly see the need to be able to creep up a rock to keep maximum traction. I have wheeled in the mud all my driving life and with the wet slimy mud we have in Oregon to make a tire work for you, you have to spin your tires fast enough to clean them out while still keeping the jeep under controll.
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Unread 01-12-2010, 06:42 PM   #8
Elkhound
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I have tried many different approches and I have come to the conclusion 3rd. gear low seems to keep enough torque and wheel speed high enough to clean out the tires. most the time lol well there are all types and styles of wheeling I just want a set up that will have good strength for the money I dont think it is a trac lock. I was told by a scout guy it should be the gear driven style. How do I tell this is one of the reasons I wanted to try and keep the limited slip from the scout. If it is the clutch style I will go with my 4.10's and find a lunch box locker on craigs list and just weld the front I guess.
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Unread 01-13-2010, 07:59 AM   #9
CSP
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Personally I would go with the lower gears in the open carrier and swap the spider and side gears for an Aussie locker.

I'm not a fan of limited slips because they all end up doing more slipping than limiting, some sooner than others.
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Unread 01-13-2010, 06:53 PM   #10
Elkhound
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I just got back from rounding up parts for my breaks. I stopped by and talked to the guys who work on all my work vans and they will set up my gears and install a lunch box style locker in my open 4.10 carrier. They told me to bring in a bare housing with the center section still in it and a bearing kit and they will install for gears and put the locker in for free scince they are already there. They want.......... 100.00 ea. axle so I am way stoked goin to pick up the waggy front this weekend and drop off the scout rear to get re-geared and locker installed. So I will just stick with that I belive this should be great for all around driving get better highway power and plenty of a low end gear for the type of wheeling I do. Thanks you guys for all your help. I'm pretty sure I have it now (untill I find out about something else and comletely change everthing again lol).
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