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Unread 06-22-2013, 08:36 PM   #316
Skerr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO_Ken View Post
It looks like jeepwhore had it right... http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...l#post15506797


XJ -> CJ
position - size - color
E4 12ga RED (Batt +) -> 12A
H2 14ga YLW (Start) -> 13B
B6 12ga DB/YL (Ignition) -> 14B

If you retained the XJ Power Distribution Center, the fuel pump relay will be connected internally. If you ditched the PDC, the fuel pump relay will need to be triggered off 14B as well.

And you'll need to attach the grounds for your XJ harness as well. Not sure where they are on yours.... On mine, they were all terminated at a ring terminal near the ignition coil. Or, position G4 on the XJ bulkhead connector should work as well.

Here's the diagram I was using...
Dang! I should have taken a picture of the PDC. I am keeping that. It will go on pass. fender. There are two threaded studs at one end. Is that for battery positive? I didn't remove it from the donor vehicle, so I am unsure.

There are 3 ground connectors (IIRC) that terminated near the coil. Kept those.

When I look at the diagram that you used I see spots! Aside from position and wire size, what is it telling me? Also, your BH connector, as you mentioned earlier, is numbered/lettered differently. Is that simply due to the orientation... meaning is it turned 90*??

Ken, are you using the XJ BH connector instead of your CJ BH connector, or are you splicing wires? I thought you said you were splicing...

With the above diagram, XJ -> CJ, is this as simple as removing E4 from the XJ BH connector and plugging it into the 12A CJ BH connector? Am I just making this hard?

Thanks for your patience!

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"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" —Samuel Adams

Clay's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...hread-1061897/
Scott's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/sc...5-cj7-1147913/
Fallon (and Dad) Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/f...-okee-1445206/
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Unread 06-22-2013, 10:44 PM   #317
SLO_Ken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
Dang! I should have taken a picture of the PDC. I am keeping that. It will go on pass. fender. There are two threaded studs at one end. Is that for battery positive? I didn't remove it from the donor vehicle, so I am unsure.
Is your PDC still attached to the rest of the harness? Or is it stand-alone?
Yes, the two studs are for Batt + and the generator output.

Quote:
When I look at the diagram that you used I see spots! Aside from position and wire size, what is it telling me? Also, your BH connector, as you mentioned earlier, is numbered/lettered differently. Is that simply due to the orientation... meaning is it turned 90*??
The diagram I posted is a single page from the FSM. You'll notice that in addition to the cavity, and wire identification, there is a 2 or 3-digit circuit identification code. These identify the individual circuits so they can be referenced on the other 300 or so pages of wiring diagrams.
And yes, the two diagrams are rotated 90* from each other. But they both show row/column "A" as being the one with 7 contacts.

Quote:
Ken, are you using the XJ BH connector instead of your CJ BH connector, or are you splicing wires? I thought you said you were splicing...
Yes, I am splicing wires.

Quote:
With the above diagram, XJ -> CJ, is this as simple as removing E4 from the XJ BH connector and plugging it into the 12A CJ BH connector? Am I just making this hard?
yeah, it could be that simple. I doubt that the contacts are compatible though, so you will probably have to splice to make it work.

Quote:
Thanks for your patience!
Glad to help!
File Type: pdf 98 XJ PDC.pdf (56.5 KB, 36 views)
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Unread 07-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO_Ken View Post
It looks like jeepwhore had it right... http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...l#post15506797


XJ -> CJ
position - size - color
E4 12ga RED (Batt +) -> 12A
H2 14ga YLW (Start) -> 13B
B6 12ga DB/YL (Ignition) -> 14B

If you retained the XJ Power Distribution Center, the fuel pump relay will be connected internally. If you ditched the PDC, the fuel pump relay will need to be triggered off 14B as well.

And you'll need to attach the grounds for your XJ harness as well. Not sure where they are on yours.... On mine, they were all terminated at a ring terminal near the ignition coil. Or, position G4 on the XJ bulkhead connector should work as well.

Here's the diagram I was using...
I can't tell if the "quote" picked up your link, Ken, but in your diagram of the '95 BH connector it is shown in section J, 8W-80-7. If I look at my '94 XJ FSM it is showing the transmission control module! Is this because it is RHD? It came from Aussie Offroad. I have scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and I can't find a connector pinout for the BH connector anywhere in this manual.

Should have the pump mounted and wires spliced to CJ BH connector this weekend. Hope to put some fire to it. Stay tuned!
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"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" —Samuel Adams

Clay's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...hread-1061897/
Scott's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/sc...5-cj7-1147913/
Fallon (and Dad) Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/f...-okee-1445206/
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Unread 07-02-2013, 06:01 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerr View Post
I can't tell if the "quote" picked up your link, Ken, but in your diagram of the '95 BH connector it is shown in section J, 8W-80-7. If I look at my '94 XJ FSM it is showing the transmission control module! Is this because it is RHD? It came from Aussie Offroad. I have scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and I can't find a connector pinout for the BH connector anywhere in this manual.

Should have the pump mounted and wires spliced to CJ BH connector this weekend. Hope to put some fire to it. Stay tuned!
Try searching the pdf for "C108." That's what the connector is labeled in the FSM I'm referencing.
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Unread 07-06-2013, 10:20 PM   #320
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So my CJ is laid up with a bum transmission so I took my brothers Cherokee out for a trail ride (low range) tonight (4.0,ax15,35's, unknown gears) I was not pleased with it. The 4.0 besides running smoothly at all angles and started easy it was not fun to drive...

Maybe it was the gearing or maybe that's just the way 4.0's drive but it was not smooth transitioning from an idle to light gas didn't want to move at idle wanted to take off at slightest amount of throttle. Bucked every time very unlike my 4.2 (t5 soon to be t176, 3:31's, 33"s) that is like a tractor through the woods at idle, silky smooth transition to gas

I have been wanting to drop a 4.0 in my 7 for quite some time but now I'm having second thoughts.

Is something messed up with his? Are they all this way? Gearing not matched to tires? Or do I just need to get used to it?
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Unread 07-07-2013, 09:43 AM   #321
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I believe the difference you speak of is the linkage. I swapped this spring (to a 4.6 Stroker). The 4.2 had a lot of crazy linkage, making for a stiff peddle. The 4.0 linkage is totally cable driven, this it can be more punchy. Just like anything else, you get used to it. I have learned to control it.
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Unread 07-07-2013, 01:02 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonATC
I believe the difference you speak of is the linkage. I swapped this spring (to a 4.6 Stroker). The 4.2 had a lot of crazy linkage, making for a stiff peddle. The 4.0 linkage is totally cable driven, this it can be more punchy. Just like anything else, you get used to it. I have learned to control it.
This. I found the return spring on the 4L throttle much lighter. That combined with 35's and 3.55 gears is gonna make for a different experience than your CJ. Not to mention the 4L has a different power band than the 4.2.
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Unread 07-07-2013, 06:00 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwhore

This. I found the return spring on the 4L throttle much lighter. That combined with 35's and 3.55 gears is gonna make for a different experience than your CJ. Not to mention the 4L has a different power band than the 4.2.
What is the power band differences?
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Unread 07-07-2013, 06:31 PM   #324
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4.2 has more on the low end , especially lower rpm's. 4.0 has more mid to high end power, and can rev higher.

Just stoke the 4.0 and get the best of both, plus some
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Unread 07-13-2013, 10:52 AM   #325
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I am installing a 4.0 in my son's 5 right now, and I am stuck! But then I'm always stuck. We are using a '97 engine (XJ 4.0) with a '92 harness. Engine harness is complete, including the PDC. Everything is mounted up. I have power at start/run, and the starter turns. I am unclear about the fuel pump relay, and which wire goes to the fuel pump. The fuel pump relay output wires are not hot in crank or run position. Also, I have no spark. Here is a link to our build thread. It should take you to the last page, or so. Would someone please have a look and see if you can help me get the needle out of the groove!?

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...l#post15672433

Thanks
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"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" —Samuel Adams

Clay's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...hread-1061897/
Scott's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/sc...5-cj7-1147913/
Fallon (and Dad) Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/f...-okee-1445206/
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Unread 07-14-2013, 03:07 PM   #326
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I had a similar problem on my swap.


In a nutshell, my problem was that my ECM was bad.

However, you need to check a few things first (I'm giving you this off the top of my head).

Make sure you have a good fuel relay.

Make sure you have a functioning automatic shutdown relay.

Make sure you have power to both

Can you jump the fuel pump relay and turn the pump on?

Did you install a 'Check engine' light? If so, you should turn on when you turn on the ignition.

You can also check the connector at the ECM To be sure that you have ground, and 12 V power at the appropriate points.

I went crazy chasing all this stuff down, until I realized that it was a bad ECM. The kid that I bought the harness from assured me that it was a working ECM, so I didn't immediately identify that as a potential issue. As soon as I put a new ECM, it fired right up.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 03:21 PM   #327
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I just quickly scanned your build thread, and have another question:

Are you still running the ballast resistor from the XJ harness? As part of my elimination process, I bypassed this resistor, cut the two wires, and soldered them together. Wranglers do not have ballast resistors, but run pretty much the same harness. I was told that for our set ups, they are not necessary.

I've been running mine that way for about 2 mos without issue.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 05:43 PM   #328
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Hey Nelson. Thanks for the reply. I spent a LARGE amount of time on the Net today, Googling things I never thought to Google. I wrote down two memo pages of notes... things to check when I got home.

No Spark, first- according to many different forums, especially Cherokeeforum, the CPS is the primary culprit in no spark at the coil. I have power in, but no sparky out. I was thinking I never plugged in the CPS, so I couldn't wait to get home. Once home, I discovered I did, indeed, plug it up. bummer. So I started reading my list of notes. I plugged in my O2 sensor (which was unplugged), I made sure I had power to my ballast resistor relay (not related to spark, buuuut) , and I checked my grounds. Now, I can't say for sure WHICH correction it was, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it was the fact I had never connected ANY of the three grounds for the ECM! Now I have spark! I am so friggin excited!!!!!

Ballast Resistor Bypass Relay, second- again, several of the forums I tapped into mentioned you could bypass the ballast resistor altogether, just as you have done. Virtually all of them state that it is only there to slow down your fuel pump speed, thus making it quieter. I don't know if it is a good idea to have your pump turning at full speed (in theory), but I dont know that it matters. I'm going to leave ours in place until it creates a problem. For now, it is working. I'm guessing... is the picture the ballast resistor bypass relay? It is connected directly to it, so it must be??

Fuel Pump Power Wire, third- I don't know where to get power for the fuel pump! I *thought* there would be a wire hanging out there that went to the fuel pump, from the PDC. But there ain't! Should I just rig it to a crank/run wire out of the bulkhead connector? Should I attach a separate relay for it?

Thanks, All...

edit* The label in the picture was for a previous post. You can disregard that!
cimg0394_1.jpg

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"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" —Samuel Adams

Clay's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...hread-1061897/
Scott's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/sc...5-cj7-1147913/
Fallon (and Dad) Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/f...-okee-1445206/
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Unread 07-14-2013, 06:40 PM   #329
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The really pictured is your ballast resistor bypass relay.

If you don't want to eliminate your ballast resistor, but still see if it is part of the problem, just make a jumper for it. Unplug it on both ends, insert the wire into the two plugs, that's joining them together.

I took the two Green wire you identified before, wired them together with one single 12 gauge wire, and ran them back to my fuel pump.

Now that I've broken out my schematics, I'm realizing that I could have eliminated the ballast resistor relay, in the ballast resistor altogether, and ran one single wire back to the fuel pump directly from the fuel pump relay. On the wiring schematic I am looking at, it is the dark green/black wire running from the fuel pump relay. This would have simplified my fuel pump wiring a bit. If I have any issues down the line, this is exactly what I'm going to do.

The reason you're not seeing a fuel pump wire is because (And I'm guessing here little bit) That wire runs up into the bulkhead connector, and from there, joins the wiring for the rear tail lights and such, where it splits out by the fuel tank.

As far as getting power for the fuel pump, check and make sure you are getting12v power to the trigger wire (The wire that actually triggers the relay to turn on) If not, make sure that wire is still connected to the box. Then you can trace that wire back. Dark blue according to my schematic. The automatic shutdown relay also triggers off this wire.
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Unread 07-14-2013, 07:43 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonATC View Post
The really pictured is your ballast resistor bypass relay.

If you don't want to eliminate your ballast resistor, but still see if it is part of the problem, just make a jumper for it. Unplug it on both ends, insert the wire into the two plugs, that's joining them together.

I took the two Green wire you identified before, wired them together with one single 12 gauge wire, and ran them back to my fuel pump.

Now that I've broken out my schematics, I'm realizing that I could have eliminated the ballast resistor relay, in the ballast resistor altogether, and ran one single wire back to the fuel pump directly from the fuel pump relay. On the wiring schematic I am looking at, it is the dark green/black wire running from the fuel pump relay. This would have simplified my fuel pump wiring a bit. If I have any issues down the line, this is exactly what I'm going to do.

The reason you're not seeing a fuel pump wire is because (And I'm guessing here little bit) That wire runs up into the bulkhead connector, and from there, joins the wiring for the rear tail lights and such, where it splits out by the fuel tank.

As far as getting power for the fuel pump, check and make sure you are getting12v power to the trigger wire (The wire that actually triggers the relay to turn on) If not, make sure that wire is still connected to the box. Then you can trace that wire back. Dark blue according to my schematic. The automatic shutdown relay also triggers off this wire.
I'll double check the Gr/Bk wires from the fuel pump relay. I know one of them goes to the heated O2 sensor, and the other goes to the ballast resistor bypass relay. I need to make sure of the voltage going to the bypass relay... if I have it right I can eliminate it as you say and use that wire to trigger my fuel pump. For now, I have the pump wired to crank/run at the BH connector. Pressurized the system, turned the key, and the dang thing started!
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"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" —Samuel Adams

Clay's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cl...hread-1061897/
Scott's Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/sc...5-cj7-1147913/
Fallon (and Dad) Build Thread
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/f...-okee-1445206/
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