New Idea For Starter Disabler - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep CJ Forum > New Idea For Starter Disabler

ROCK BOTTOM prices on LIFT KITS at Rockridge4wd!! WANT TO Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineSavvy Billet LED Tail Lights

Reply
Unread 04-03-2005, 09:10 PM   #1
GADJIT98
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Conyers GA--near Atlanta
Posts: 263
New Idea For Starter Disabler

OK, I have my flame suit on but I had a crazy idea today.......


Find a "closed when energized" relay and run the parking light circuit through it and attach the ignition wire.

Fint 2 "open when energized" relays and put one on the headlight circuit and one on the brake light circuit.

Pass the ignition through both of these in such a way that the only way to start the Jeep would be to pull the parking lights on and push the brak pedal while starting.


This is a version of the hidden swith, but with greater security. GeerHead, I hope you can tell us whether I am pissing up a rope or if I actually have a good idea here.

Dave

__________________
83 CJ7 258, T-176, d300, Heddman Headers, Weber 32/36, 3" lift, HEI ignition, Power Brake upgrade, 33x12.5's, 3:31 gears w/ one piece axles.
GADJIT98 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2005, 11:21 PM   #2
knifeboy2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Macomb, IL
Posts: 485
It might work, unless someone is stealing your Jeep at night, and then there's no deterant. I gotta search, but I've get a system of a hidden magnetic reed switch and a few relays. To start my Jeep I need to pass a magnet over the hidden switch (which can be anywhere) and then it'll start. Otherwise there's no ignition, but it'll crank, so it'll make a lot of noise and attract attention.
__________________
"If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" -Will Rogers
knifeboy2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2005, 11:50 PM   #3
bjf498
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 688
i've allways wanted one that you have to enter a passcode on a little pannle to start it
__________________
Small, fine shavings are ok, large chunks are bad, huge chunks with part number stamped on them are real bad.
bjf498 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 06:12 AM   #4
Fropleyqk
Registered User
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Okinawa, Japan
Posts: 4,477
Man, if you wanted to go that route, the possibilities are endless. You could set it up to where it will only start if the left blinker is on while pushing the clutch while running your winch and the radio has to be set to 1600 AM. Just kidding, that is a pretty good idea though.
__________________
Okinawa Jeep Club
Fropleyqk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 07:08 AM   #5
TheJunkMan2005
Registered User
1988 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lebanon, Ct, Lisbon, Ct
Posts: 741
My theft detterent is pretty simple.. I just make it a point to ONLY drive vehicles that are SO ugly, and beat up, that nobody in there right mind would want to steal it. That idea works GREAT for me! I'm just about to hit 30, and haven't even had a stereo stolen once. The clostest I've had was somebody trying to steal my toolbox from next to my car in the middle of the night. Well, them seeing me coming with my baseball bat got them to stop really fast..

Oh Well, that's just my idea..

TheJunkMan2005
__________________
1988 Wrangler 89000 miles, no rust, no rot, all nice and pretty.. Runs down the highway really nice too.. This is great fun.
TheJunkMan2005 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 08:20 AM   #6
dawgates
Web Wheeler
1980 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,276
Instead of going through all that trouble, why don't you just hide a switch going to your coil wire or to the starter solenoid.
I beat if you install a switch that looks like your fan switch no one would know the difference. Drill a hole above your headlight switch.

I installed a battery kill switch. I ran a bypass wire for the radio (clock). So far I don't know if it works as a deterent. No one has tried to borrow my Jeep without permission, but it does work!
__________________
80' CJ7, 360 Howell Injected, 3" single exhaust, NP435 4spd, Dana 300 AA clocking ring, Currie twin stick, Tera-Low 4 -1 kit, Dana 44 front, cut 10" wider to 63", 4.10 gears, ARB, Yukon axles and Super H/D u-joints, Currie Dana 44 rear, cut wider to 60 1/2", 4.10 gears, ARB 35 spline, Currie 35 spline axle shafts, 2 1/2" x 11" Ford drum brakes, CJ-SOA conversion, Tom Woods F & R drive shafts, Warn 9500i winch, 6 point cage, Homemade F&R bumpers and tire carrier, 1" body, Pro Comp supension Kit, 12.5x35x15 BFG's, 15x10 OMF beadlocks, Body armor, OBA.
dawgates is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 10:29 AM   #7
Geer_hed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 2,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by GADJIT98
OK, I have my flame suit on but I had a crazy idea today.......

Find a "closed when energized" relay and run the parking light circuit through it and attach the ignition wire.

Fint 2 "open when energized" relays and put one on the headlight circuit and one on the brake light circuit.

Pass the ignition through both of these in such a way that the only way to start the Jeep would be to pull the parking lights on and push the brak pedal while starting.
Gzus... You're creating a nightmarish no-crank troubleshoot for yourself, and you just know it's going to leave you stranded in the 7-11 parking lot at midnight on a Wednesday... That or at the Gas Station just when a bunch of ppl were going to say "nice jeep"

Some things that immediately strike me as complicated with your idea is that you really only have 2 condition wires that stand in between the Battery and the Starter Motor on the solenoid, and of those, you only have one that is typically OPEN during normal vehicle operation (Ignition BLUE). Soooo... Either one of your conditions would have to be put on ignition red, meaning one of the would have to be CLOSED any time the engine was running, or you want to put 3 conditions on one wire? Hmmm... I'm sure it can probably be done, but I can't fathom a schematic off the top of the noggin... research required....

Also, most SPDT Relays can be made in to a Normally Open or Normally Closed relay regardless of their actual manufacture because either pin 87 or pin 87a is going to be one of those conditions at all times, depending on the state of coil charge.
__________________
[center][color=black][b]85 CJ7 / 258 / T176 / Dana 30/ AMC 20[/b][/color]
[url=http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_forviolence/]My Online Dumping Ground[/url][/center]
Geer_hed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 11:16 AM   #8
Geer_hed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 2,226
Ok. So I'm thinking that this could be done with 2 relays, not 3. If the stated purpose is accurate "Pass the ignition through both of these in such a way that the only way to start the Jeep would be to pull the parking lights on and push the brak pedal while starting", then the first relay is redundant. See if this makes any sense:



If you wanted to, you could put a LED on the 87a pin on both relays to show you when the relays are refusing to bypass current. In fact you could rig a harness and make a quick box with 2 LEDs so you could watch the relays open and close to make sure they are working, especially when they stop working, you can see where the current is "stopping"...

Ok... time to get to work...
__________________
[center][color=black][b]85 CJ7 / 258 / T176 / Dana 30/ AMC 20[/b][/color]
[url=http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_forviolence/]My Online Dumping Ground[/url][/center]
Geer_hed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 02:34 PM   #9
GADJIT98
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Conyers GA--near Atlanta
Posts: 263
DAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM,

That is exactly what I want to do....

The headlight / parking light combo does have a purpose. A would be thief may think of turning the headlights on and would probably hit the brake pedal as a natural reflex, but I'm guessing he would not think to only put the parking lights on......meaning that if the headlights AND parking lights were on, the headlight relay would be open and thus not crank.

You could also put a "short cut" bridge before and after the relay to basically bridge the gap if you had a relay go bad on the road.....just bridge the gap and you could start her right up.

Also, the reliability is an issue and the workmanship would need to be well done to avoid the troublesome bad connections. My thinking is that if you take your time and make sure all connections are good, take your time in placing the relays where they are easily accessable if you know where to look, then this could be an inexpensive way to help secure the Jeep from being stolen.



Fropley made a good point in that you could use any combination of relays to different components to make it even more unique / difficult to start.

Lets keep this thread going just a little longer to see what ideas pop up, I will post the results of my final install when I finish.

Dave
__________________
83 CJ7 258, T-176, d300, Heddman Headers, Weber 32/36, 3" lift, HEI ignition, Power Brake upgrade, 33x12.5's, 3:31 gears w/ one piece axles.
GADJIT98 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 07:31 PM   #10
Geer_hed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 2,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by GADJIT98
The headlight / parking light combo does have a purpose. A would be thief may think of turning the headlights on and would probably hit the brake pedal as a natural reflex, but I'm guessing he would not think to only put the parking lights on......meaning that if the headlights AND parking lights were on, the headlight relay would be open and thus not crank.
Oh ok.... This was the pic I tried to put up when the DB f*cked up earlier this evening:

__________________
[center][color=black][b]85 CJ7 / 258 / T176 / Dana 30/ AMC 20[/b][/color]
[url=http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_forviolence/]My Online Dumping Ground[/url][/center]
Geer_hed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 08:31 PM   #11
KGBnumber1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 248
Just an idea that i had here once a few years ago....

would it be better to use something just as simple as a single relay, connected to your starter selonoid? the 'switch' to open the relay, and allow current for the relay, to allow current for starting, could be your cigarette lighter. with the ignition off, your lighter shouldnt work anyway. push it in, start er up. any crook to think of usin the cig lighter to start the car?

i'll post up a little diagram of the electrical circuit like geer head did
__________________
Blue Jeep Club member [COLOR=Blue]#100[/COLOR]
1970 DJ-5
3.8 v6
700R4 tranny
countless hours of blood and sweat turning it into a cj-5
KGBnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 09:06 PM   #12
KGBnumber1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 248
Would this be correct, or am i just nuts?



you would be using your cig lighter, as the switch to activate the relay, to enable starting. one question, would the cig lighter still work? i mean, it has current going through it, and the switch itself is meant to create resistance, to build up heat in that coil.... would the battery still provide enough amperage to work the relay as well as the lighter? would that put too much amps through the relay itself?

thanks for the input
-mike
__________________
Blue Jeep Club member [COLOR=Blue]#100[/COLOR]
1970 DJ-5
3.8 v6
700R4 tranny
countless hours of blood and sweat turning it into a cj-5
KGBnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 09:43 PM   #13
GADJIT98
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Conyers GA--near Atlanta
Posts: 263
Good question KGB. The beauty of this idea is that you can get as creative as you like with the relays to make it harder for a thief or drunk to start it up

Another thing is to put the radio directly to the battery with an inline fuse and put the relay there, thus making the thief turn the radio on to start it up. Pretty much anything is do-able here, just make sure the workmanship is 1st rate to avoid bad connections.

The downside to all this is exactly what Geerhead mentioned and then solved....put LED's on all the relays and you can easily troubleshoot it.

Another issue is to not make is so %&@$ing complicated that you look like a monkey trying to crank your Jeep. The system needs to be simple enough to look relatively normal, yet complex enough to not be obvious.

Great ideas and information!

Dave
__________________
83 CJ7 258, T-176, d300, Heddman Headers, Weber 32/36, 3" lift, HEI ignition, Power Brake upgrade, 33x12.5's, 3:31 gears w/ one piece axles.
GADJIT98 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 10:04 PM   #14
Geer_hed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 2,226
I wouldn't count on keeping the cigarette lighter, but if you were willing to give it up, there's no reason you couldn't use it as variable B+ on pin 86. But I'm thinking it would look something more like this:



Also, I've never had much success with working cigarette lighters. They are so buggy and susceptible to corrosion. Just a thought...
__________________
[center][color=black][b]85 CJ7 / 258 / T176 / Dana 30/ AMC 20[/b][/color]
[url=http://www.geocities.com/cantwait_forviolence/]My Online Dumping Ground[/url][/center]
Geer_hed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2005, 10:08 PM   #15
crazyjeeper69
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: maryland
Posts: 29
As i used to install car alarms this brings me back. All or your viper car alarms all use a simple relay that breaks the starters circuit to not let the car start. Very similer to all of the ideas above.


Its kinda funny though reminds me of the time we put a relay in a co-workers car so that whenever he stepped on his brakes his windshield wipers would turn on.
crazyjeeper69 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.