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Unread 08-26-2014, 05:18 PM   #61
sabbyATL
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Oh, I checked the voltage to the choke heater wire - nothing. This meant putting the red probe on the choke power wire and the black probe on the choke ground wire.

The resistance on the choke heater terminals is 12.2 ohms.

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Unread 08-26-2014, 05:24 PM   #62
sabbyATL
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The resistance between the solenoid power wire/fuse power and the dedicated grounds is 0.3 ohms for each dedicated ground.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 05:26 PM   #63
sabbyATL
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Lastly, the choke power wire is only connected to the fuel pump wire. It is not connected to any other wire via jumper nor splitter.
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Unread 08-26-2014, 07:16 PM   #64
JeepHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbyATL View Post
Unbolt from the fender....are any wires connected to it or am I testing the relay by itself?

I don't quite understand what I'm supposed to do to check the starter solenoid...
With battery CONNECTED to the relay, when you break 'Ground' by taking the bolts loose and moving the relay mount OFF the fender,
You are breaking it's 'Ground' connection.

If you are still watching between NEGATIVE cable and battery post for voltage,
*IF* the voltage drops when you disconnect, you found a bad starter relay.

With battery positive cable connected to the starter relay,
When you test for VOLTAGE at the 'I' terminal, with no wire on it, you SHOULD NOT show voltage coming through that terminal.
If you show voltage while the starter relay is NOT activated, then it's a bad relay.

If it passes both tests, then it's probably working like it should, bolt it back down.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbyATL
I think I understand...instead of the battery positive going to terminal A on the starter solenoid and giving power to the solenoid power wire, aka power to the fuse panel, I should touch the solenoid power wire directly to the batter positive terminal. Is that right? And measure the voltage.
Not so much,
Take the feed wire (Terminal 'A'?) off the starter relay.
That's the main feed to the fuse block.

If voltage drops at your negative cable to battery negative meter test,
We know it's something in the fuse block.

The first test verifies the Starter Relay isn't the problem, since it will show up in a 'Ground Wire' test, what you have been doing...

The second test VERIFIES there isn't something else hooked up to your battery cable you haven't told us about...

Like I said, all the SMALLER wires should connect to the starter relay, battery cable side so they are AWAY from the corrosive effects of the battery,
And so if something gives up it doesn't spark the battery and make it explode.

....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbyATL
I don't understand this. ..I mean I understand the concept but I don't know what that means for My fuse panel.
The connectors in the fuse panel aren't blades. They're little clips. I don't know to look for a hot side and a dead side.
One side of a fuse will be 'Hot',
The electrical current will flow through a much smaller conductor inside the fuse,
Then the current will exit the other side of the fuse,
Go out to your accessory via the wires FROM the fuse block.

Even with the fuses removed, when the master power wire is connected to the battery, there will be a 'HOT' side to the fuse holder, that's power INTO the fuse,
And there will be a 'Cold' side of the fuse holder, that's power OUT to accessories.

What I want you to do,
With the fuse block connected to the starter relay by it's master power wire,
I want you to turn your multimeter to VOLTS,
Connect one lead to a solid 'Ground',
And probe both sides of all fuse slots.

If you find POWER where it's supposed to be, that's fine.
If you find power on the OUT side to the accessory, then that accessory wire is getting power from somewhere it shouldn't...

That's what we call a 'Sneak Circuit'...
Something 'HOT' connected WHERE it shouldn't be, back-feeding the system WHEN it shouldn't be.

Testing for voltage with fuses pulled will tell you if you have something backfeeding what is supposed to be 'Cold'...

Now, BOTH SIDES of the 'Accessory' and 'Ignition' circuits should be 'Cold' or 'Dead' since the ignition switch is unhooked...
TWO DEAD SIDES IS CORRECT ON ACCESSORY OR IGNITION SWITCHED CIRCUITS.

What we are mainly looking for here are accessory lines that SHOULD BE COLD, but show hot...
Something from the 'Full Time' hot wires connected to the wrong terminal, back-feeding something it shouldn't.

....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbyATL
The full time hot wires will be the ones showing voltage in the fuse panel with the fuses pulled, is that right? Then for that wire go to it's destination and find it's ground. Cut the power. Read the resistance between the power wire and ground wire connected to the "destination". ?
Not necessarily, that's what we need to find out.

You should be able to find which circuits are 'Swtiched' and which are full time 'Hot' by having a look at the back of the fuse block.
Also why I wanted pictures to map that fuse block out so we know where things go...

Some things are full time hot, no matter what harness,
Headlights, brake lights, 4 way flashers...

Wanting to know what else is 'Hot' on the side of the fuse that is actually SUPPOSED to be hot,
And what *MIGHT* be 'Hot' when it shouldn't be...
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Unread 08-26-2014, 07:21 PM   #65
JeepHammer
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I'm out of town for about 3 days starting early tomorrow morning myself.
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Unread 08-27-2014, 06:32 AM   #66
sabbyATL
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OK so I unbolted the solenoid from the fender and took a voltage trading from the battery negative cable and terminal. I got full voltage, which is currently 13.08V because I charged the battery.
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Unread 08-27-2014, 06:36 AM   #67
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And there's no voltage coming through the I terminal, so I think the relay is good.

I've got time to do a little bit of investigation this morning. My flight is at noon so I figure I can do this until 930 ish.
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Unread 08-27-2014, 06:40 AM   #68
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So we've already verified that the voltage drops to nothing when we take that main feed of the relay. There's no voltage when the alternator, starter, or anything is hooked to the relay. The only wrote l wire that changes the reading is the feed to the fuse box.

Main feed on terminal A - 13.08V
Main feed not on terminal A - 0.00V

We know it's not the starter or the alternator. It's not anything connected to terminals I and/or S.
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Unread 08-27-2014, 07:01 AM   #69
Mike Romain
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So basically with the solenoid in the air and hooked to the battery, there are no volts showing on either S or I or the bracket with the meter on ground and on those parts.
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Unread 08-27-2014, 07:08 AM   #70
sabbyATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
So basically with the solenoid in the air and hooked to the battery, there are no volts showing on either S or I or the bracket with the meter on ground and on those parts.
Right. I think the relay is fine.

I just checked the voltages at the fuse panel. I'll upload shortly.
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Unread 08-27-2014, 07:12 AM   #71
Mike Romain
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Choke fuse check. One side shows the 12-13 ohms to ground right. The other side of the fuse clip should show no connection, 0L to the solenoid power wire with the key switch hooked up and the key off. Then when you turn the key to run, it should show a connection to the solenoid power wire.

This is to confirm the choke isn't using power when the key is off.
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Unread 08-27-2014, 07:18 AM   #72
Mike Romain
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You can do the choke test with volts too. Hook the solenoid power wire to the A terminal and see if the other side of the choke fuse shows power to ground. Key on and key off.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
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Unread 08-27-2014, 07:57 AM   #73
sabbyATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
You can do the choke test with volts too. Hook the solenoid power wire to the A terminal and see if the other side of the choke fuse shows power to ground. Key on and key off.
I can tell you the choke power wire in the fusebox is getting full volts. I am going to make a table like I did yesterday. It shows the same pattern as the resistance.
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Unread 08-27-2014, 08:15 AM   #74
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbyATL View Post

I can tell you the choke power wire in the fusebox is getting full volts. I am going to make a table like I did yesterday. It shows the same pattern as the resistance.
Don't forget, only one side of the fuse holder shows volts. The other side goes to the component being powered up.

If you do have power to the fuse for the choke, it will (should) be on the other leg of the fuse than the resistance check side.

It also should only show power with the key in run. If it shows volts with the key off, you have found what you are looking for likely.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 08-27-2014, 08:22 AM   #75
sabbyATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
Don't forget, only one side of the fuse holder shows volts. The other side goes to the component being powered up.

If you do have power to the fuse for the choke, it will (should) be on the other leg of the fuse than the resistance check side.

It also should only show power with the key in run. If it shows volts with the key off, you have found what you are looking for likely.
See, I don't think I quite understand what's meant by "only one side of the fuse holder".

My fuse holders look like this, either in a row like that or as singles.
32029_f.gif

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