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Unread 08-25-2014, 08:20 AM   #1
Mike Romain
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New EZ wiring harness short circuit help needed

Folks I have been trying to assist sabbyATL with her new EZ wiring harness. It is installed and shows a short circuit.
A test light between the battery negative cable and neg battery post shows a bright light. Positive cable hooked up. Volt meter shows full battery voltage across the neg cable to battery post gap.

So far we have everything off the fender solenoid's battery post except the main fuse link wire feeding the fuse panel and ignition. Side terminals (S and I) are removed as well as the starter cable and one wire alternator.

Fender solenoid with no cables on it shows no battery circuit to ground or between the main posts.

Radio unplugged, no clock.

Key switch confirmed to be off, but it is a new switch. Hmm I would want to double check the key off position, haven't tried that yet. Maybe it is acc/off/on/start and actually is in acc, but all fuses are pulled... Or just unplug the power to it.

All fuses have been removed. "Every" circuit appears fused on this EZ system, but... We still show a bright light between the cable and battery post.

Any ideas what could be causing the draw?

I am at the point of just having her start unplugging things like the headlight, wipers, ignition, etc., but all are supposed to be fused.

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Unread 08-25-2014, 08:38 AM   #2
WindKnot
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All the fuses have been pulled and there's still a short? I'd isolate the fuse block from battery and if the short is lifted, look for a short at each fuse on both sides.

Of course if the short is not lifted you've determined that everything down leg of the fuse block is okay.

Are any of the connecting screws just flat out too long?

That's all I've got. Just keep isolating and when you find the affected leg (circuit) just keep opening the circuit up in halves. That way you know which way to chase. But I think you already knew that.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 04:39 PM   #3
JeepHammer
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Ignition Switch,
Accessory/OFF/Run/Start, there is a good thought,
Key switch turned to accessory would CERTAINLY cause the issue.
Didn't think of that, just ASSUMED that 'Off' was 'Off'...

*IF* The power is dropped to the ignition switch,
And the load disconnects, you KNOW it's a switched load someplace.

*IF* the load persists, it's a NON-Switched load.

That would narrow it down a little farther...

----------

Then it's off to figuring out what got grounded...

Since it's not a full current load, and it's not fused, hooking up full power could cook things...

If it's something like lights, there is enough load to NOT cook the wiring, but still run the battery down over time.

If it's something like the blower motor, there is a load and won't cook the wiring.

On the other hand, if it's something with full time power connected to 'Ground' by accident, that could be really bad if you throw full battery current against it.

The only way I see is one circuit at a time, since headlight switch gets power full time,
And other things do also.. they will have to be checked one by one.

-----------

DC won't trip an external current detector (no break in insulation),
So there is only one way I know about, and that is test each circuit at a time.

Trace the 'Hot' feed into the fuse block,
Then trace each wire OUT to accessories, disconnecting them one by one to see which one is drawing current.

Don't worry about fused circuits, since the fuses are pulled and the draw persists... It's an UN-FUSED circuit someplace.
The only way to find UN-FUSED circuits I know of is to actually look at the back of the fuse block and see what's connected to 'HOT' and trace that wire...
Either to a pulled fuse, which is a dead end, move to next,
Or it goes someplace to something that is connected and may be drawing.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 05:12 PM   #4
sabbyATL
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Hi Mike, you mentioned you were going to start this thread but I am just getting around to discovering it.

I'll repeat some on for here that's on the other thread.

All fuses are pulled.
The only thing connected to the starter solenoid are the battery cable and a wire providing power to the fuse panel, both on terminal A.
Power to every single thing in the dash is disconnected - wipers, lightswitch, ignition, electric fuel pump, voltmeter, instrument panel, radio, cigarette lighter, and heater.
I have installed dedicated grounds in the engine bay, dash, and rear. I've ground the running lights, headlights, starter motor, Mopar ECU, dome light, ignition switch, voltmeter, radio, cigarette lighter, heater, instrument cluster, and taillights. They all ground back to the battery negative terminal.

With all the above I am reading full voltage from the battery negative cable to the battery negative post. I verified with a second multimeter.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 05:27 PM   #5
JeepHammer
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With everything DISCONNECTED, you have a 'Ground' directly to power someplace.
It's pretty much the only explanation if everything is disconnected.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 05:36 PM   #6
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Open up terminal "A". Look there and verify that the terminal is good as well.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 05:37 PM   #7
sabbyATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHammer View Post
With everything DISCONNECTED, you have a 'Ground' directly to power someplace.
It's pretty much the only explanation if everything is disconnected.
So what does that mean? I need to check my ground wires?
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Unread 08-25-2014, 05:39 PM   #8
sabbyATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindKnot View Post
Open up terminal "A". Look there and verify that the terminal is good as well.
How's that done? Sorry for the helpless questions.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 05:42 PM   #9
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Simply go to terminal "A" and lift the wires. If I understand you correctly, at that point battery isn't connected to any thing. Then look down each leg, one at a time when they are not connected to each other. If I understand correctly, there will be a short to ground either going to the starter, or to the fuse panel, or the actual terminal and the chassis.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 06:14 PM   #10
sabbyATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindKnot View Post
Simply go to terminal "A" and lift the wires. If I understand you correctly, at that point battery isn't connected to any thing. Then look down each leg, one at a time when they are not connected to each other. If I understand correctly, there will be a short to ground either going to the starter, or to the fuse panel, or the actual terminal and the chassis.
Ok so right now the battery cable and the fuse panel cable are on A. I should take them off?

How do I recognize the short?
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Unread 08-25-2014, 06:32 PM   #11
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I suspect one of the many ground wires that have been installed. As an electrician I know these things can be a real PITA to find.. IF you can find a DC clamp on ammeter that goes to a small enough scale that's where I'd start. If you find or borrow such a meter you will need to place it around wires individually or by bundle to look for current. With everything in the off position of course.. If you find a bundle showing current then look at each wire individually. That's pretty much how we did it at the plant when we got a ground fault detector alarm.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 06:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbyATL View Post
Ok so right now the battery cable and the fuse panel cable are on A. I should take them off?

How do I recognize the short?
A short usually allows all the stored smoke to get out of the wire.. What you have is some kinda high resistance ground fault.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 06:46 PM   #13
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindKnot View Post
Open up terminal "A". Look there and verify that the terminal is good as well.
Terminal A is just the battery post on the fender solenoid. It was checked for no contact to ground.
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Unread 08-25-2014, 06:48 PM   #14
Mike Romain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zillla View Post

A short usually allows all the stored smoke to get out of the wire.. What you have is some kinda high resistance ground fault.
She hasn't hooked up the battery neg yet, she tested for a draw from the neg post to the neg cable first and got volts. Then checked with a test light and got a bright light.
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86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00, 'New' frame,wires and plumbing in '09. Carter BBD Carbed 4.0 HO in '10.
89 YJ Renegade. BBD Carbed 4.0 HO. Locked front and rear with 33x9.5 BFG AT's
Some Canadian Bush Jeep Runs and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com (10 new albums added Sept 16/10)
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Unread 08-25-2014, 06:51 PM   #15
zillla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Romain View Post
She hasn't hooked up the battery neg yet, she tested for a draw from the neg post to the neg cable first and got volts. Then checked with a test light and got a bright light.
Of course she got volts. She made a series circuit. Am missing something here?


Edit. Just for ****z and grins I replicated this on my pile.. Guess what? My meter reads 12 volts DC, with the Neg lifted to the Neg term of the battery. I do not have a test light. But suspect that those test lights don't take much to run em



Could be the ECM is using a lil power?
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